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Old 06-04-2012, 12:27 AM   #1
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Default Helper springs have no travel

I've got Xida Clubsports (love them) and I'm trying to figure out how give the rear helper springs some travel. They are all but FULLY compressed at full droop. My car is a stock weight NB on 6" front and 6" rear 550/350 springs. I shot the linked video today, it shows that I have no helper spring travel:

What needs to change to give them some travel? Long/shorter spring? Softer/harder rate? I can lower the perch a bit (rear ride height is ~4.125 at the pinch weld), but what else can I do? I think the helpers are 150 lb/in. Perhaps this rate is too close to the main spring rate of 350 lb/in? The fronts have travel available at droop...

Thanks

Last edited by MoonieGT; 06-04-2012 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:25 AM   #2
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They're supposed to be compressed. They keep the tire on the road at full droop.
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:01 AM   #3
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if you want more droop, you'd need a longer shock. don't the XIDAs have enough droop as it is? all XIDAs I've seen in person, the rear helper spring is compressed
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:32 AM   #4
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helper springs will always be compressed until in droop, and even them IIRC, emilio has said depending on your car wieght/height they might always. This is not a bad thing and what they are designed to do...keep the main spring seated in droop.

sounds like your car might just be really low? 4.125" sounds low. Had you had tender springs, then you'd expect them to stay decompressed more often then not, as they share the weight of the car and work a bit differently.


Fix you video!!!! you copy and pasted a truncated link.


one last thing, are you checking full droop with both rear tires off the ground? If not, your sway bar is a limiting factor anyways, but getting both tires off will be a better representation of the rear being unloaded.
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:50 AM   #5
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Fixed the link.

According emilio's description, they are supposed control wheel travel when the wheel is under lighter load. They are not supposed to be compressed at full droop. They are 150 lb/in springs, so they are stiff enough to "work."

However, great point about both wheels off the ground. I need to double check that as I was lifting one side of the car at a time. However, in the video you can see that they never un-bind.

Also, the front helpers have a lot of travel available (they un-bind even when lifting one side of the car).
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:54 AM   #6
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Get the car lower (it sure didn't look low yesterday but I'm an NA guy), corner harder, go over curbing:

If you put the car down 2" more, the spring will have more room to work.

I thought the car drove fine and you shouldn't be worried about this stuff. Get it on the track, then use the suspension cam...just drive the thing. It handles bumps awesomely (better than my cars), its comfortable, what's the problem?
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:57 AM   #7
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So a 2.125" pinch weld height?! Um... No... I'll come down a bit, but probably not another 2".

I was weaving a fair bit during the video...
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:59 AM   #8
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re-do that video but instead jack the car up by the diff and see if they really are compressed at full droop.
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:02 AM   #9
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I'll do that tonight. I should have thought about the sway bar...

In any event, they're still not unbinding under load. I can get some more corner load into the car but not a lot...
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:02 AM   #10
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video is awesome, but looks like you have tons of bump/droop travel as is.
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:04 AM   #11
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Im not complaining about travel (xidas do that well). But I've got two $65 springs sitting on their *** instead of doing their job
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:05 AM   #12
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Hustler: the video was after I lowered from where you saw it yesterday.
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:08 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonieGT View Post
Im not complaining about travel (xidas do that well). But I've got two $65 springs sitting on their *** instead of doing their job
think about this, if you removed the springs and had to move the perches to maintain the same ride height, the springs probably would become unseated in droop.
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:11 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonieGT View Post
So a 2.125" pinch weld height?! Um... No... I'll come down a bit, but probably not another 2".

I was weaving a fair bit during the video...
The car just didn't look that low to me, measure again. Compare your fender gap to Crusher:

I also tuck (and tape my T)


You're weaving on the street on street rubber, get 1g+ loaded up, then run over some curbs, that will be the truthbomb.jpg.
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonieGT View Post
Im not complaining about travel (xidas do that well). But I've got two $65 springs sitting on their *** instead of doing their job
After you go to the track and decide these don't work, I'll probably buy them for my front shocks. I don't have room in the rear.

I'm still not sure you "wasted" $130, but if it makes you feel better I wasted between $5000-$7000 in parts on the green car in about 6-months.
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:13 AM   #16
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Maybe you missed my post, but I dropped the car .5" or so i the rear and about .75" in the front from where you saw it yesterday. The heights were all jacked after I put in the new spring relocators.
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:13 AM   #17
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As a matter of principle, though...if he jacks the rear of the car up by the diff, both rear wheels at full droop, and the helpers are still fully compressed...what's the advantage over spacers?
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:14 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonieGT View Post
I'll do that tonight. I should have thought about the sway bar...

In any event, they're still not unbinding under load. I can get some more corner load into the car but not a lot...
Do you have a pic of the assembled damper and stpring out of the car?

Again, none of this ---- matters because the car handles awesomely.
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:16 AM   #19
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Hehe, ya it isn't bad now. But I'm wondering if it could be a little better if I set it up right .

I dont have a pic of it assembled out of the car.
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:22 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
As a matter of principle, though...if he jacks the rear of the car up by the diff, both rear wheels at full droop, and the helpers are still fully compressed...what's the advantage over spacers?
the helpers are still eating up 150 lbs of weight before the 350lb springs even start to compress, so spacers wouldn't be exactly the same....but no you gotta point there if spacers alone would suffice.
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