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Old 04-26-2013, 05:49 PM   #1
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Default how to get more neg camber in front?

I'm pretty low; just a little off the bumpstops. I'm only able to get neg 2.6 camber; leaving only 3.8 caster.

What is the preferred method to improve this? I've got some ideas, but I figured I should check here first. 1) move upper wishbone inboard pick-up in? 2) slot and pull the lower ball joint outboard? 3) slot and re-weld the adj ridge for the cam on the lower inner wishbone?

The recent thread in "race prep" featuring the adjustable upper wishbones sure looks nice right now....
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Old 04-26-2013, 06:19 PM   #2
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New holes in the lower arm for the ball joint and weld some washers because the new holes where so close to the edge of the controll arm.

This made the lower arm ~7-8mm longer.

hop you understand because my English sucks
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:26 PM   #3
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Your English is good. Tusen tack myrando!
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:12 PM   #4
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Offset bushings for the lower control arm is another option. Also v8 roadsters lower control arms. You dont want to make the UCA shorter in the front or you'll have clearance issues.
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Old 05-04-2013, 08:57 PM   #5
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You dont want to make the UCA shorter in the front or you'll have clearance issues.
That would depend on back spacing and tire size but a concern for sure.
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Old 05-04-2013, 09:12 PM   #6
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Old 05-04-2013, 09:20 PM   #7
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Yeah, I'd do the bushings before cutting and welding control arms. Are you tracking this? They bend easily, I wouldn't want to modify a brand new control arm every time they bent.
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Old 05-04-2013, 10:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtred View Post
I'm pretty low; just a little off the bumpstops. I'm only able to get neg 2.6 camber; leaving only 3.8 caster.

What is the preferred method to improve this? I've got some ideas, but I figured I should check here first. 1) move upper wishbone inboard pick-up in? 2) slot and pull the lower ball joint outboard? 3) slot and re-weld the adj ridge for the cam on the lower inner wishbone?

The recent thread in "race prep" featuring the adjustable upper wishbones sure looks nice right now....

You should be able to get more caster than that. Caster measurements are not live on most alignment machines. So if you adjusted your camber, and saw low caster, I'm not surprised. It needs re-comped after every adjustment of the front alignment cams.

Why do you want more camber? What are your rear specs? What kind of racing (if any), and with what suspension and tire? Exact ride height can be valuable, but with that camber number I'd guess you're in the 11inch wheel to fender range.



Offset bushings should be your first option; if you don't want any further discussion. Personally, I don't trust slotted ball joints, and I don't think I'd trust it on a race car unless it was a bolt in replacement style, which would fudge up your SAI, etc.
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Old 05-04-2013, 10:17 PM   #9
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Why do you want more camber?
Because mad stance, yo.
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Old 05-04-2013, 10:39 PM   #10
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Because mad stance, yo.
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Old 05-04-2013, 10:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guttedmiata View Post
That would depend on back spacing and tire size but a concern for sure.
True, but more than half this site run 949s or something with the same offset.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:06 PM   #12
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It's not a stance thing, he's racing the car. He actually has (gasp) threads about it on this very forum.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:16 PM   #13
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It's not a stance thing, he's racing the car. He actually has (gasp) threads about it on this very forum.
So any time someone posts, we all need to go back through their post history, and figure out their needs? So I need to be creating a flow-chart of each forum members life and needs, to give them advice? This whole time I thought we were a forum.


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Old 05-05-2013, 11:32 PM   #14
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If you ad much more camber you will start loosing braking efficiency, we made offset Delein bushings and it was a win lose situation (solo STS car)
You probably should look at your tire temps to see if you actually need more camber.
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:36 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndGearRubber View Post
So any time someone posts, we all need to go back through their post history, and figure out their needs? So I need to be creating a flow-chart of each forum members life and needs, to give them advice? This whole time I thought we were a forum.


You could just not be an asshat and assume he's asking for no reason. What, is it let's be an ******* week on MT.net? I mean more than usual? Jesus.

Edit: this is a legitimate technical question, and you are throwing noise into our signal to noise ratio. Pokemon. Who the **** cares?
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Offset bushings for the lower control arm is another option. Also v8 roadsters lower control arms. You dont want to make the UCA shorter in the front or you'll have clearance issues.
A 5mm wheel spacer would solve any clearance problems created by offset UCA bushings.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:21 AM   #17
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I'd avoid LCA bushings that use an offset in the sleeve vs. an offset in the bushing material. That offset load makes the camber bolt that much more susceptible breaking loose - especially on track. Using the same bushings linked above, they required check/retorque after every session and sometimes sooner. I never had an issues using a normal straight sleeve in an offset bore through delrin with the delrin hardware anchored through the LCA sleeve/housing.
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Old 05-06-2013, 03:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
I never had an issues using a normal straight sleeve in an offset bore through delrin with the delrin hardware anchored through the LCA sleeve/housing.
Could well be.

I avoided posting the ISC Delrin Bushings on the basis that I have no personal experience at all with Delrin suspension parts, and have heard anecdotally that they can be needlessly harsh on daily-driver cars. Didn't realize at the time that this was, in fact, because racecar.

Based on that, I tend to agree. The ISC delrin bushings are available in the US, and may very well be more reliable in a race application.

What are your thoughts on ISC's recommendation that their bushings be placed in the upper, rather than the lower front arm?
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Old 05-06-2013, 03:54 PM   #19
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It makes perfect sense because they're recommended spherical bearings in the LCA- which is ideal that would compensate for the bind potential you have with delrin when rolling the camber bolts opposite directions.

That said, I have done four Miata racecars with delrin bushings throughout- all used offset LCA bushings and never had any issues. I can only assume that the subframes were very square, and my alignment bolts were rolled similar front and rear for alignment. Fully assembled they had free movement- if you pulled them to full compression and let go they'd fall to full droop (sans coilover of course.)

If somebody is looking for more neg camber up front, just know going into that there is the potential for binding and that you may have to compromise your caster because of it. But in this case at -2.6, I think the gain in the camber would be worth it.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
You could just not be an asshat and assume he's asking for no reason. What, is it let's be an ******* week on MT.net? I mean more than usual? Jesus.

Edit: this is a legitimate technical question, and you are throwing noise into our signal to noise ratio. Pokemon. Who the **** cares?


Helped answer the OP, got to use pokemon gif. Win/Win


He wants to do some wild stuff, when bushings are the first step (although I kind of doubt that caster number he had is right). Without additional information, no one has any idea where to go with suggestions.

So instead of making a big deal about a simple joke..... maybe just link to the original thread where he posted everything? (Not that the OP has any obligation to provide, you know, basic information) Instead, you just bitch and don't really add a whole lot.


Is it ******* week?

EDIT: That's actually a " ", not some sort of backhanded way of calling you an a-hole, just a joke.
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