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How to: Repack a front hub
105 Attachment(s)
Ok, so I got tired of finding broken links to the guy who did a write up on this, so I decided to do my own. Please forgive me if any of this is unclear or if the pics suck. Remember that I did this with my phone while mostly drunk wearing gloves covered in grease. :dealwithit:
Some critical thinking and restraint must be applied when attempting this job. There are several parts that cannot be replaced (such as the plastic bearing retainer) so don't get all angry monkey when prying on things. This is the process that I used for MY hubs. I would imagine most hubs will follow the same basic steps but the internal parts may be slightly different. Remember that Mazda claims these hubs ARE NOT SERVICEABLE so please, use your head and [SIZE="5"]PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK! I accept no liability or responsibility if you choose to attempt this yourself.[/SIZE] SAFETY WARNING: Before you proceed, please be aware that not all hubs are created equal and we have documented failures for specific types of hubs due to substandard machining practices. Please read this thread and make sure your hubs are safe for track duty: https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...el-hubs-90331/ Stuff you gonna need:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 This is my hub, there are many like it but this one is mine. Its a Timken 513152 fresh from Amazon. I've been told that any eBay Chinese hub should be fine, but I chose to go with a known quantity as I don't plan on doing this again any time soon. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 It looks like this, its a hub. Also pictured are some tools https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 First things first: jam a couple pennies or washers between the 2 inner races https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Now drop your 21mm socket down the hole and smack it with a hammer https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 If you did this correctly, the outer race and pennies should pop out the bottom. If not, hit it harder. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Flip the hub over an check out dem greasy balls. You can see them held in place by the black plastic bearing retainer. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Take the smaller of your screwdrivers and pop the balls loose. You can do this by putting the blade of the screwdriver behind the ball and gently prying it forward. DO NOT BREAK THE PLASTIC RETAINER! Pay attenton to how much force you are using or you will scratch the outer race. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 See the race back there? Don't screw it up! https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Now remove the bearing retainer. I stuck a couple of them sticky balls in there so you can see what I'm talking about. Put the balls and the retainer together off to the side. We don't want to mix them up with the rear balls. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Look down into that greasy hole and try not to get too excited. The exposed silver ring in there is the face of the inner race. That's the next part we will be removing https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Drop your 29mm socket down the hole https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Now dock your slimmer 21mm socket inside the 29mm https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Now smack it with a hammer watch the inner race pop out https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 My camera decided to miss some pictures but here is what the hub looks like after the inner balls and retainer are removed. It's the same process as the outer so you should be able to handle it. You can also see the rear rubber seal my Timken hubs were equipped with. You may need to squeeze the retainer to get it past the seal, just don't pry against or otherwise damage the seal. Do not mix up the 2 sets of balls, keep them separated. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Our next step is to remove the seal. Insert your largish screwdriver from the backside and use it to GENTLY tap the seal loose. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 This is what the seal looks like on the inside. I popped it back over the inner race so you can get a better idea of what you are looking at. The rubber part is bonded to the yellow metal part. Obviously we want to push on the metal part. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 This is pretty much ideal screwdriver placement. Don't screw this up as the seals are very difficult to find. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Seal free of hub. Run little seal, run! https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Now here is the greasy hole you need to clean. I started by wiping everything down with disposable blue shop towels to get as much grease cleared away as possible. The hub body and bearings clean up really well with a rag soaked in acetone. Thicker deposits seem to yield to WD-40 + rag followed by acetone. The idea is to get everything as clean as humanly possible as to not contaminate the new grease and thus destroy the shiny new bearings. [SIZE="5"]WARNING![/SIZE]
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 For reference, left is outer bearing retainer and race, right is inner. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Just to confuse you, I flipped them over and reversed their locations so you can better see how they are different. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 This is the grease we will be using. Its AMSOIL Dominator Synthetic Racing Grease. You will recognize its smell if you have ever met Hustler in person. This is the same product as the AMSOIL 2000 Race Grease but in their infinate wisdom AMSOIL decided to change the name. I got my tube from Andrew @ Trackspeed Engineering. PM Savington (Andrew) about it as he does not list the AMSOIL goodies on his website. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Here is the product code so you don't get confused. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Start by popping your rear balls back into the appropriate retainer. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Get yourself a generous gob of grease and get packin' (I think this was actually way too much grease) https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Check out my greasy balls! https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Flip the hub back over, put a little grease on the inner bearing race (no one likes it when you go in dry) and drop the retainer assembly back into place. Pack more grease in on top if you have the paranoia as I do. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Now that the bearings are back in the hub, re-install the seal. Be sure to GENTLY tap it back into place until its flush with the face of the hub. Put a smidge of grease on the face of the seal. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Now grab that inner race, smear some grease on the bearing surface. (Sorry, pics are a little out of sequence, the hub should have the seal installed already as in the previous step) https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Now drop it in from the rear... https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 ...and GENTLY tap it into place until its flush with the face of the hub. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Here is the inner race as seen from the outside. I pushed a little extra grease in there, because paranoia. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 This next step is truly terrible and frustrating. I only have this one pic so hopefully it gets the idea across. I started by putting a layer of grease on the bearing surface. Unlike the inner retainer, the outer one will not hold the balls for you. You have to hold the retainer in place form the inside of the hub with one finger on one hand while you pop the balls into place with one finger on the other hand. Like I say, its frustrating as hell but you will eventually get it done. IMAGE MISSING Once you get all the balls in place, pack them little bastards up with grease. IMAGE MISSING Grab the outer race and smear some grease on the bearing surface then drop it inside the bearings. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 Put your socket on top of the race and give it a good tap... https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1381162291 ...and the race will drop back into place. Congratulations! If your penis is not currently stuck in the hub then you should have a properly repacked hub at this point. Wipe down the hub with the acetone rag and have that beer I mentioned earlier. [SIZE="5"]NOW, repeat the process with the second hub :party:[/SIZE] |
And with pictures?
Dann |
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1060120)
And with pictures?
They are hosted here on imgur because the MiataTurbo image uploader thing only lets me put 25 in an album and I have to upload them 3 at a time. Ain't nobody got time fo' dat' |
This may not help our overseas guests, but in the USA, Rock Auto sells reman hubs in the $30 range. Probably not worth a rebuild for that price.
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1 Attachment(s)
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Originally Posted by hornetball
(Post 1060126)
This may not help our overseas guests, but in the USA, Rock Auto sells reman hubs in the $30 range. Probably not worth a rebuild for that price.
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1060127)
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Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1060128)
I've checked this from 2 different laptops and desktops and all the images load without issue, so :dunno:
--Ian |
Doesnt work here. And WD40 works better than acetone and wont destroy the bearing cage or seal.
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ITT: how to fail uploading pictures, a how to.
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Originally Posted by codrus
(Post 1060139)
Doesn't work here either.
Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1060201)
Doesnt work here.
Originally Posted by curly
(Post 1060288)
ITT: how to fail uploading pictures, a how to.
See? This is what happens when I try to do something nice. |
My photobucket links always upload themselves fine to the MT sever.
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And my imgur links generally work as well, I can't tell you why it decided to be suck and fail this time.
Ok, so now I've deleted most of the pictures of my cat out of my album to make room for these things. I hope you people are happy now. |
Well, I'm happy now. My balls are greasy, and my penis is stuck in a race that I can't tell if it's winning, but I'm happy.
Thanks G! |
If you are happy, I'm happy :bigtu:
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Thanks for the contribution. Pics work on the mobile app with Android.
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Good stuff.
I did this to my new hub when I bought the car a few years ago to replace a bad bearing/hub it came with. I usually don't trust the manufacturers grease. I love the detailed pics and starting with a new hub makes the job looks so clean. I'm going to try this with my Clutch Throw-Out Bearing |
Yeah, my old hubs are god-damn miserable dirty externally. The factory grease that isn't in direct contact with the bearings themselves is super hard and crusty and looks pretty much useless. My plan is to pull them apart and check them out. If the bearings and races look good, I may do a full clean/repack and put them in the "track spares" box.
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Redline CV2 is significantly prettier than the Amsoil stuff (I'm hooked on Redline assembly lube for the same reason). Not sure if it is penis rated, but getting a gob of CV2 down there might scare the hell out of you at first glance.
Nice how-to! |
I was trying to avoid the "Instructions unclear, penis stuck in hub" comments that were sure to follow. :jerkit:
I'm sure CV2 works great but I couldn't find it locally. I was already ordering magic AMSOIL juice for my 6 speed so I had Andrew add the grease to the order as well. One week later and I'm not shitting grease all over my brakes so I must have done something right :brain: |
Suhweet. *adds to the ever growing list of things to do while the miotter is off the road for the winter.*
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Top shelf How-To. I just rebuilt my front hubs using EO2K's amazing and witty instructions.
I did find it easier to remove the individual ball bearings prior to removing the cages, but YMMV. Nevertheless, a very helpful post. Oh, and Nitrile gloves made sure I don't smell like Huster aka AMSoil Dominator grease. |
Glad it was helpful! Someday I'll get around to doing another thread for the rears. :bigtu:
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Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1183694)
Glad it was helpful! Someday I'll get around to doing another thread for the rears. :bigtu:
I also recently repacked my rears :giggle: using a similar procedure and took a lot of pictures: https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...2/#post1184839 It wasn't very different from the fronts - a bit easier because you can remove and install the retainer without pulling each ball out individually. I more or less used the procedure outlined in this thread to get the bearings out of the of the car: https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...t-press-56506/ |
Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1060118)
This next step is truly terrible and frustrating. I only have this one pic so hopefully it gets the idea across. I started by putting a layer of grease on the bearing surface. Unlike the inner retainer, the outer one will not hold the balls for you. You have to hold the retainer in place form the inside of the hub with one finger on one hand while you pop the balls into place with one finger on the other hand. Like I say, its frustrating as hell but you will eventually get it done.
I could use a little advice on this step. Maybe I'm not doing it right, but everytime I try to tap the inner race back in, it drives the retainer out. I've trashed two hubs so far trying to learn how to do this. Looking at the bottom of the inner race, I don't see how it's dimensionally possible to have the outer race hold the balls in place while trying to be spread apart by the inner race. |
If I remember correctly, I had to stick one finger up from the bottom while pushing the balls in with another finger from the top. Once all the balls were in, the retainer just kinda stayed in place while the race pushed by. Is there any chance you mixed up the races? What hubs are you using?
I'm at a loss because I've only done this on the one set of Timkin hubs so I'm not sure what other ones would look like. I have my 120k/mi OEM ones in the garage that I've been meaning to repack but I've not got around to it quite yet. I remember it was amazingly frustrating and it took some finger gymnastics to make it happen, and I didn't get it until the 4th or 5th try. Sorry its being a particular PITA for you :( |
Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1209425)
If I remember correctly, I had to stick one finger up from the bottom while pushing the balls in with another finger from the top.
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Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1209425)
If I remember correctly, I had to stick one finger up from the bottom while pushing the balls in with another finger from the top. Once all the balls were in, the retainer just kinda stayed in place while the race pushed by. Is there any chance you mixed up the races? What hubs are you using?
I'm at a loss because I've only done this on the one set of Timkin hubs so I'm not sure what other ones would look like. I have my 120k/mi OEM ones in the garage that I've been meaning to repack but I've not got around to it quite yet. I remember it was amazingly frustrating and it took some finger gymnastics to make it happen, and I didn't get it until the 4th or 5th try. Sorry its being a particular PITA for you :( If I understand you correctly, it sounds like i never had the balls/cage fully seating before i started trying to drive it in. AND...I grabbed a 19mm deep socket, because I figured it was the same thing. Looks like 19 is the right size to fit just inside the cage and break those tabs off..... I'll try again tomorrow. EDIT: How much force does it take to get the balls and cage into the race with your fingers? |
Just did mine, couple things to add.
Compressed air works great for blasting grease off the retainers. When doing the finger gymnastics with the outer race bearing retainer, try and push it as far away from the side you are trying to put the ball in. You want maximum space between the race and the retainer. |
I just got done doing this to a set of new Mazda hubs. I left the bearings and cradles in the hub and sprayed the crap out of them with brake cleaner. Used compressed air to make sure they where clean and packed with CV-2. Do not use the chlorinated brake cleaner.
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I just did one of mine last night. Kinda surprised how easy it was, which is good because I used Mobil1 grease, so I'll probably be doing it again pretty soon... Surely this grease is better than what it had in it, and if nothing else, I used a lot more grease than the factory.
The hub I'm replacing is a Timken that I bought at Autozone about three years (20k miles, couple hundred autocross runs, and a few tack days) ago. It has started to develop some play, and I'd rather not worry about it. As far as I know the other front hub is OEM and still feels perfectly fine after 111k miles. I'm going to replace it too though. |
Anyone ever find a source for replacement seals for the front hub? If repacking OEM ones they come out pretty nasty sometimes.
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I have a link that says Advanced Autosports (https://www.advanced-autosports.com/) carries them, but their website is currently "down for maintenance" and none of the links work.
This should be the link, assuming the site comes back up and the paths do not change: Code:
https://www.advanced-autosports.com/index.php?main_page=product_reviews_info&products_id=248&reviews_id=13 |
The damn NTN part number is on it. Sadfab should set themselves up as a dealer and just order them.
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We've tried a few that were close on our Chump Car with no luck. We just remove any seals from dead hubs to install in good ones.
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Has anyone used a Moog 513152 non-ABS hub? The Timken 513152 has always been my preferred hub, but it looks like it's NLA. I'm getting ready to install the two spare hubs that I've had sitting on the shelf since last summer- one Timken 513152 and one "Carquest Premium" 513152, which is 100% indistinguishable from the Timken- and I need to buy a couple new spares. It looks like the Moog *might* just be a rebranded Timken/Carquest.
I know everyone will tell me to just buy the Timken ABS hub, but my inner engineer prefers the non-ABS hub without the machined-in stress risers. |
Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1356075)
The damn NTN part number is on it. Sadfab should set themselves up as a dealer and just order them.
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Originally Posted by hi_im_sean
(Post 1357009)
Maybe on a stock oem hub? Theyre not on my timkens, or duras, or detroit axles, or the 2 other no names i have sitting here. I also measured them and they cross over with nothing in the timken catalog. This leads me to believe they are a custom seal.
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Well, dont share it with us or anything. That would be too easy.
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Lol maybe I'll remember to check next time I'm in the garage.
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3 Attachment(s)
Just received the Moog. It's exactly the same as the Timken and Carquest, except that the races are stamped "NTN JAPAN TL" on the Moog vs. "NTN JAPAN PL" on the other two. All have identical heat treating with the same pattern of prick marks from hardness testing. The Timken and Carquest have been in my spares box for at least a year, so the newer Timken hubs may be "TL" also. I'm going to keep the Carquest in the spares box and install the Moog and Timken this weekend. I'll post an update if the Moog sucks.
Attachment 183250 Attachment 183251 Attachment 183252 |
Any part numbers on the seals
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Nope. Sorry brah.
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@jpreston, where did you pick up the Moog? Amazon? RockAuto? FLAPS? I'm wondering about the price compars with the Timken.
Thanks for posting up about it, it's always good to have more sources and comparisons for these types of things :bigtu: |
Autozone online with a 20% off coupon for orders over $100. It's normally $98.99. Add a $4.99 duralast 3/8 drive 10mm socket (can't ever have too many) to the order and get the Moog for $80 shipped.
Autozone and Advance Auto both carry it, so you can pretty much always get it for at least 15% off. |
Does the Moog box say made in Japan, and CarQuest say China?
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Yep. I didn't notice that. Weird, since the bearing is stamped Japan. The Timken box doesn't say, but it had to have been made on the same line as the carquest. I can't find anything at all to differentiate those two.
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I just installed a couple of the Mazdaspeed HD "blueprinted" fronts after going through Mazda OEMs like water. Will report on how they stand up to Red.
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Originally Posted by hornetball
(Post 1358239)
I just installed a couple of the Mazdaspeed HD "blueprinted" fronts after going through Mazda OEMs like water. Will report on how they stand up to Red.
I already hammered the caps in and put a detent into the locknut, so it will be annoying to undo all of that. |
Thanks for the heads-up on that. I used the maintenance manual number.
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@hornetball, did you repack the OEM ones or just run them as they came out of the box?
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I just ran them as-is. I recently purchased some of the good grease and will venture into Aidansworld once I kill off these Mazdaspeed HDs (these are supposedly already repacked with the good stuff).
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Originally Posted by jpreston
(Post 1358131)
Just received the Moog. It's exactly the same as the Timken and Carquest, except that the races are stamped "NTN JAPAN TL" on the Moog vs. "NTN JAPAN PL" on the other two. All have identical heat treating with the same pattern of prick marks from hardness testing. The Timken and Carquest have been in my spares box for at least a year, so the newer Timken hubs may be "TL" also. I'm going to keep the Carquest in the spares box and install the Moog and Timken this weekend. I'll post an update if the Moog sucks.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28...ps9skke0xk.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28...psdaaq8td3.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28...psoox6ya6m.jpg |
I can tonight. I see what you're getting at... it looks like the diameter might be correct to allow you to install the tone ring onto a non-ABS hub, but it looks to me like the depth of the cut is too shallow.
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The tone rings aren't big. I've seen other places that people say the non abs hubs still have a place for the ring.
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Later OEM hubs had machining for tone rings on all hubs. We just press the tone rings off damaged hubs and put them on good ones all the time.
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Originally Posted by aidandj
(Post 1358132)
Any part numbers on the seals
"NACHI" "F28BVV10" "JAPAN" edit: this appears to be the part number for the entire hub assembly |
For everyone still subbed or following this thread, please go here and read: https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...el-hubs-90331/
You have been warned. |
I am in the middle of repacking new Timken 513155 wheel hubs and hit a bit of a snag.
The Timken bearing has a different arrangement on the inner race. There is a "retaining channel" that grabs a series of 4 tabs on the retainer. https://s6.postimg.org/vwgnuofld/Inner_Race.jpg When I drive out the inner race with the crack washer method, it breaks off two of the retaining tabs on the race. (Red and Green arrows in photo) Just to be sure, I did both hubs and had the same result. https://s6.postimg.org/ydxgz25td/Retainer.jpg I'm planning to repack and reassemble as I don't think these tabs do much other than ease assembly at the factory. Anybody differ? |
Is the 513155 for a Miata application? Or alternate part number?
That sucks, but prop for good pics. Te mo data, te bettah. |
Originally Posted by GasJunkie
(Post 1399151)
I'm planning to repack and reassemble as I don't think these tabs do much other than ease assembly at the factory. Anybody differ?
513155 is the Timken Miata ABS hub part number. 513152 is non-ABS. |
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