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Old 10-18-2013, 11:40 AM   #1
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Default HPDE/DD brake pads? NA w/1.8L brakes

Well I'm sure this isn't a new topic but I didn't find exactly what I was looking for via searching.

Just picked up a street legal but track focused '92 1.6L turbo miata. It already has the larger 1.8L front rotors, and since the rears need replacing, I'm going to do the 1.8L upgrade on the rear also.

Trying to decide what I should do on the brake pads though. Should I just go with one set of pads for both street and HPDE use? Should I have a dedicated set of pads (and rotors?) for track use and another set for street? In either case, any pad recommendations?

Car is not a DD but I do plan to drive it on the street some. I do have a set of Toyo R888's (205/50/15) that came with the car for track use.

And for the time being, no trailer, so I'll be driving it to the track (VIR), about 1.5-2 hrs away.

Suggestions?

Thanks.
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:17 PM   #2
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I like my Hawk HT-10's. Everyone else is going to recommend DTC-60's but I think the HT-10 works better on the street. I run at VIR and have never had any fade of any sort.

Alternatively you could go with carbotech XP-8 or XP10, they are popular dual purpose pads.
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:18 PM   #3
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I love carbotech XP8s and they don't eat your wheels up like Hawk. The squeal a bit, but worked great on the street.

You will need to bed them proper to get the most out of them just like any pad though.
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:22 PM   #4
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DTC-60 FTW. They will turn your wheels black with corrosive dust, if that matters to you. If you want something a little less aggressive, try the Hawk Blue's.
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:35 PM   #5
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When I searched like a good noob instead, I found:

DTC-60s for the track, whatever for the street. Drive the DTC-60s to the track, and while cold they will resurface the rotors for you.
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:46 PM   #6
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I will echo everyone and their DTC-60 recommendation. I swap pads for track days, then back to shitty HPS pads for street (BTW, HPS sucks hard, won't buy again)
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:01 PM   #7
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I'm using HP+ for street/AutoX/Track (30%/30%/40%).
They're OK on track, OK for AutoX and I don't blow through the 1st stop sign of the morning.
Definitely a compromise, not the best at any of the three applications, but OK for all three.
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:20 PM   #8
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This if for those who DD with occassional HPDE (the Hawk HPS/HP+ crowd).

On a whim, I tried Centric's StopTech pads on otherwise stock 1.8 brakes (front and back). The price was right and I'd read some good things about them on non-Miata forums.

The pads are para-aramid (i.e., Kevlar) based. I now have 10 track hours and 1000s of street miles on these pads. They REALLY work well on my car running about 160HP (I detune to 6psi on track) with street tires. They feel exactly the same from the first stop to the last stop of a hot session. That's with both me and Adam Poland (MX-5 Cup Shootout Semi-Finalist) driving. The tracks were MSR-C and Hallett in some pretty hot summer temps.

My caveat is that I'm on low-grip street tires -- nothing like R888s (ask Eric). I just bought a set of Rivals and will report back results with the stickier tires. Just thought I'd throw this out there because these pads have far exceeded my expectations and I'm not sure if anyone else has tried them.
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:56 PM   #9
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I don't think there is such a thing as a dual purpose HPDE/Street brake pad, and would definitely recommend you run two different sets of pads.

If you can't swap brake pads at the track you probably shouldn't be tracking a car anyway.

I used Cobalt XR2s on the front of my turbo miata when I tracked it. They are a bit pricey, but the nice thing about the cobalts is they are very rotor friendly and tolerate rotors that have had other brake material on them. So with the cobalts you can run just one set of rotors and swap the pads out at the beginning and end of your track days.

I never tried the Carbotechs on my turbo miata when i was tracking it, but a lot of people swear by them, and I ran them on the SCCA club racing cars I drove all year with good results. That, and the guys that run Carbotech are super nice, good people.
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:09 PM   #10
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Thanks for the feedback.

I think the DTC-60's are going to be more aggressive than I want to start out with.

Any thoughts on the DTC-30? Optimal heat range 100-800.
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:30 PM   #11
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As the tires get stickier and the car gets faster the brake compounds must improve. I've graduated up through Hawk's HPS, HP+, and Blue compounds. The Blue compound scared me before I tried them because I didn't think they would stop when cold. They stop fine when cold - just like stock. A lot of Spec Miatas run Blues. And I have no problem driving all day on the street with them.


But I need to go to the DTC-60S now because I'm running 225 Continental slicks, 200+whp on the track, in a full weight car.
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Old 10-18-2013, 09:09 PM   #12
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Are you guys running the same pads front and rear or something more aggressive on the front?
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Old 10-19-2013, 08:18 AM   #13
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Same same.
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:39 AM   #14
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When most people make recommendations on here for Carbotechs, they usually recommend XP10 front, XP8 rear. OR if the car is higher HP or has higher grip, then XP12 front, XP10 rear.

So in general, people recommend (at least with the Carbotechs) one compound less aggressive in the rear. Now, just because that is what everyone recommends, doesn't mean it will be best for you.

Also, for a while in my track/street car I ran Hawk Blues in the front and didn't swap them at the track, just left them in all the time. The dust like crazy if used like that, and the dust is pretty aggressive. I have some 6ULs that need complete refinishing because of that...

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Old 10-19-2013, 05:24 PM   #15
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The DTC-60s are HT-10s, it's the superceded part.

Track: DTC-60s/HT-10s
Street: Hawk HPS or whatever
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Old 10-19-2013, 07:22 PM   #16
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HT-10 and DTC-60 are very different.
  • HT-10 is a non corrosive compound Vs. DTC-60 is extremely corrosive
  • DTC-60 deliver higher torque
  • DTC-60 lasts much longer
  • HT-10 is much more rotor friendly
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:40 PM   #17
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I run carbotechs with good results, nothing beats the xp10 pedal feel. I think you can order them through 949racing.
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Old 10-20-2013, 02:51 PM   #18
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I run the DTC-60s all around, and have not noticed any of the problems people claim to have with these pads. I drive my car to the track, run TT on Hoosiers, and drive it back all on the same pads.

-Cold weather stopping: no difference for street driving down to ~30F
-Corrosive dust: Have never noticed brake dust corroding anything... maybe due to the low humidity in AZ. Where are people seeing corrosion?
-Eats rotors: I have 20 track hours and about 4,000 street miles on this set of rotors (which have seen 2 sets of DTC-60s and one set of DTC-30s) with no issues, but they are ready for replacement now. 20 track hours seems like a reasonable replacement interval for rotors to me.

As far as track performance, they are very consistent session-to-session, even in 100+ ambient temps. The TSE brake ducts helped with this a lot, though.
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Old 10-21-2013, 02:17 AM   #19
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Eh, the HT-10/DTC-60 are kinda sketchy in the morning because you go to get on the brake to a stoplight and they just don't do anything until they warm up. It usually only takes 1 or 2 stops to get some confidence in the pedal.

All of my experience with Hawk pads have been extremely rotor friendly. I've heard of Axxis Ultimates eating rotors, and I have only heard of Carbotechs being EXTREMELY picky about bed-in procedure.

Both the HT-10s and DTC-60s dust like crazy, but I really don't care since I know that it'll stop the car every single time.
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Old 10-21-2013, 07:52 PM   #20
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I'm using EBC Yellows with Star Specs and they brake fine but I've been running at a track that only has one hard braking zone.

Porterfield R4 and Cobalt are other good choices.
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