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Old 10-21-2013, 08:45 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
and I have only heard of Carbotechs being EXTREMELY picky about bed-in procedure.
I don't get why people have a hard time with this.

Fresh pads/rotors, go somewhere and do 70-5 stops until the brakes are nice and stinky and starting to fade a bit, drive home using them as little as possible and let them cool.

Alternatively, use the first session of the day ease into using them, then get them stinky and soft, park until the next session.

And this is the same procedure I've used for any other pad.
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Old 10-22-2013, 02:03 PM   #22
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I've only heard that if you wind up switching to a different pad that isn't in the same family, you need to get your rotors turned or replace them.

Hawks DGAF, just brake hard a few times and you're golden.
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Old 10-22-2013, 02:19 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
I've only heard that if you wind up switching to a different pad that isn't in the same family, you need to get your rotors turned or replace them.

Hawks DGAF, just brake hard a few times and you're golden.
I get that, but they specifically say to resurface or use new rotors.

Although I screw off on the forums enough to know how hard it is for people to read.
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Old 10-22-2013, 02:29 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by z31maniac View Post
I get that, but they specifically say to resurface or use new rotors.

Although I screw off on the forums enough to know how hard it is for people to read.
So are you agreeing or disagreeing with what I said?
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Old 10-22-2013, 03:00 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
So are you agreeing or disagreeing with what I said?
I was agreeing with your first statement. Carbotech specifically requests you do this, then people have problems when they don't exactly what the company asked them to do. It's just typical of the inane stuff you see pop up on the forums.

Second I don't know, I've never used Hawk pads.
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:31 PM   #26
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This if for those who DD with occassional HPDE (the Hawk HPS/HP+ crowd).

On a whim, I tried Centric's StopTech Street Performance pads on otherwise stock 1.8 brakes (front and back). The price was right and I'd read some good things about them on non-Miata forums.

The pads are para-aramid (i.e., Kevlar) based. I now have 10 track hours and 1000s of street miles on these pads. They REALLY work well on my car running about 160HP (I detune to 6psi on track) with street tires. They feel exactly the same from the first stop to the last stop of a hot session. That's with both me and Adam Poland (MX-5 Cup Shootout Semi-Finalist) driving. The tracks were MSR-C and Hallett in some pretty hot summer temps.

My caveat is that I'm on low-grip street tires -- nothing like R888s (ask Eric). I just bought a set of Rivals and will report back results with the stickier tires. Just thought I'd throw this out there because these pads have far exceeded my expectations and I'm not sure if anyone else has tried them.
As promised, reporting back. Did a track day yesterday with Rivals (loved the Rivals, BTW). MSR-C 1.7 CW. This time, I went ahead and left EBC on, so we were about 185RWHP (10psi). As before, absolutely no brake issues with consistent feel and modulation throughout the sessions. Trail braking with these pads was effortless and fun. Dave Tedeschi (Spec Miata guy) and I tag-teamed on the car, so it was working hard. Did 7 20-minute sessions, including 1 back-to-back (40 minutes).

I have about 5000 street miles and 14 hours on track with these pads. Rears are barely worn. Fronts are at ~50%. I've got a bunch more track time coming up, so I just bought another set of fronts from Rock Auto for $43.

I guess I'm upping my recommendation. These pads seem suitable for street up to intermediate-level HPDE. Somebody else try these and tell me whether I'm smoking crack or not. I'm a relatively inexperienced track guy, but the other two guys that were driving the car had gobs of experience. So .
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:31 AM   #27
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I'm more inexperienced than hornetball, but I've been happy with my StopTechs, too. On the short <1 mile track I lap on, I actually find that my biggest problem is them not working as well on the first lap until they're up to temperature, ditto on the street if you're driving around like a grandma. They're not BAD, mind you - they're better even ice-cold than the ceramic pads that they replaced - but they feel considerably better once there's a bit of heat in them. My stock power and little-girl driving haven't been able to fade them on my '99 (non-Sport brakes) with Bridgestone Comp2.

They rate relatively well on the old-codger scale, too: they'll occasionally emit the tiniest bit of squeal during low-speed light braking, but it's rare and mild. Mostly I get it while backing up. Dusting is moderate, but it's extremely easy to wipe/wash off. At the price Rock Auto offers them, they're very tough to beat for a DD that sees a bit of track use.
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:23 PM   #28
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I've run EBC Yellows on track and on street. They're good on street and meh on track. Its only around session 3 or 4 they start to fade - initial bite is good.

But i also DD mine more than track
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:19 AM   #29
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Thanks for all the feedback. I ended up getting the Hawk HP+ pads. I don't have much to compare with, but certainly no complaints with them after my first track day. Zero brake fade, no modulation problems. Weather was in the upper 50s. Granted I was in the novice group and running on Kumho XS and not R compounds. Haven't driven them on the street yet other than to bed them the night before I loaded the trailer to head to the track.

I'll post a follow up if I come up with anything else useful to add after I put a few more miles on them.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:54 PM   #30
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Get some HT-10s or DTC-60s as backups for next year. You'll wind up outbraking the pad very, very soon. Especially if you're making more power than stock.
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Old 11-23-2013, 12:13 PM   #31
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I vote for the carbotechs. I have been running them for a few years. Here is my suggestion:

205 street tire: XP8s all around
205 R-comp/Hoosier: XP10 front, Probably XP8 rear
225 RS-3/Rival/Extreme summer: probably the same as 205 R-Comp/Hoosier.

I don't really have a hard time with the bedding process, but they do strongly recommend giving them a clean rotor to bed on. You can probably use a flapper wheel to clean the rotor surface instead of getting them turned, but I don't know about that.

Another advantage, XP8s are good for the street. They are noisy, but I would say they stop pretty close to street pads when cold (ie before your first ~2 stops) afterwards, they do better.
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Old 11-23-2013, 12:57 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
Get some HT-10s or DTC-60s as backups for next year. You'll wind up outbraking the pad very, very soon. Especially if you're making more power than stock.
Yea that was my thinking too. Once my driving ability exceeds the tires and brakes I'll move up on the pads and some R compounds and just have a dedicated track setup. Easy swap when prepping for a track day.
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:02 PM   #33
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You should consider moving up the pads and staying on street tires. Having brakes that work is extremely important, and you'll be outbraking the pads sooner than you think.
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:06 PM   #34
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You should consider moving up the pads and staying on street tires. Having brakes that work is extremely important, and you'll be outbraking the pads sooner than you think.
This. 1000x this.

I've had a stock 1.6, open diff, but now sitting on Wilwoods on all 4 corners for my last track day. Never had to worry about brakes (and we did many back-to-back sessions between two drivers) and there is negligible pad wear.

Of course, I did my brakes in anticipation of nearly 2x the HP, Aero, and hoosiers.............but no one has ever complained of having too much brake.
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:27 PM   #35
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One thing I didn't see mentioned regarding the DTC-60 pad for track use is noise. They do give a pretty significant metallic squeal at low speeds which will not impress anyone in your office parking garage.

Not that driving a 20+ year old Miata is going to impress anyone, but it will draw more attention to you.
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:44 PM   #36
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My Carbotech's squealed like crazy in the first few damp sessions of the day, couldn't get any heat into them. Thankfully I didn't have to rebed them when it dried up.
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:11 PM   #37
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Just curious, when I was discussing the subject of brake pads with a few track buddies (all mustang guys, NASA instructors, one ran an AI car up until a year or two ago), they all looked at me like I was crazy when I mentioned the DTC60's. as in, why would a light weight miata ever need that aggressive up a pad. They felt I'd be flat spotting tires like crazy.

Obviously none of them had any direct experience with a miata so they were just offering opinions and conjecture.

Any thoughts on why the dtc60 is so popular with miatas yet the same pad might be considered "extreme" in another application?
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:56 PM   #38
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I used the RockAuto StopTechs for street and autoX but 10 minutes into a session at Sebring they were starting to throw in the towel and that was on RS3's with a stock 1.6. Switched to HP+ all round until I get more power and stickier tires.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:32 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Boris View Post
I used the RockAuto StopTechs for street and autoX but 10 minutes into a session at Sebring they were starting to throw in the towel and that was on RS3's with a stock 1.6. Switched to HP+ all round until I get more power and stickier tires.
It could be down to your technique on the brakes. That's why you will read so many different suggestions regarding what to use.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:38 AM   #40
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Mine is a momentum car so I'm not all that hard on the brakes though I do brake late.
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