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Old 02-12-2016, 11:22 AM   #1  
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Default Keisler Automation Drop Spindle kit, worth it?

So I know there was a thread on these, but I figured necroposting wouldn't do much good.

I was looking into buying the kit sold here: Keisler Automation drop spindles MAZDA - MiataRoadster - High-performance customer service...and parts for Roadsters but wanted some feedback on them before dropping some cash on them. The original post was more about the interest and potential benefits the kit brings, but no one really posted about buying the kit and installing it. I've heard a few negative things about them, like certain shock setups hitting, requiring new brake setups, no ABS and was wondering if anyone has actually installed them, My setup right now is stock, but the end goal is to have XIDA coilovers, possibly the FM big brake kit, tubular control arms, and maybe modified knuckles.

Anyone here have these that can give feedback on them, positive or negative? Thanks.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:33 PM   #2  
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My feedback is if you are still ising stock shocks and springs....there is NO WAY you should be considering buying a set of drop spindles as your first suspension mod.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:47 PM   #3  
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https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...pindles-76700/

I've seen them being made, very high quality product and lots of pros. However, this should not be your first mod to consider for suspension, heh.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:56 PM   #4  
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This won't be my first for sure, but I don't want to invest in it if it interferes with what I would have once I'm ready to install it.
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Old 02-12-2016, 01:24 PM   #5  
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If you aren't building custom shocks to match, they aren't worth buying.
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Old 02-12-2016, 01:57 PM   #6  
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Yeah if I remember right to take full advantage of the spindles and get more droop you need longer shocks, not to mention MR2 hubs for the fronts.

The main concern with this whole thing is the cost, but the benefits are great. Just remember the cost\benefit analysis on this. You're probably looking at ~5grand for shocks/spindles/bearings/brake kit.
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Old 02-12-2016, 02:09 PM   #7  
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The link I posted has the MR2 hubs as an addition to the package. Also offers upper control arm ball joins, lower control arm ball joints, and tie rod end ball joints.

Is there a tried-and-true suspension setup made for these?
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Old 02-12-2016, 02:25 PM   #8  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G_Wheezy View Post
The link I posted has the MR2 hubs as an addition to the package. Also offers upper control arm ball joins, lower control arm ball joints, and tie rod end ball joints.

Is there a tried-and-true suspension setup made for these?
Keisler has his car with a nice cantilever setup, at least in the rear. I think he found some hayabusa shocks that fit the correct dimensions for the front of the car. I know first hand it works great

I don't think many people in the states have tried these, but I know there's a dozen or more across the pond using them successfully. Unsure on the application, though.
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Old 02-12-2016, 02:46 PM   #9  
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Hayabusa? As in.. Motorcycle shocks?
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Old 02-12-2016, 02:50 PM   #10  
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Hayabusa? As in.. Motorcycle shocks?
Correct. It's not a developed solution I don't believe, but it works on paper and seems to work well enough in the real world too. As others have said, you'd ideally want a custom built shock for it. There's always the option to run spacers with a current OTS option while the custom shocks are being developed.
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Old 02-12-2016, 03:04 PM   #11  
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Very interesting. I suppose that it isn't really that strange. I wonder how much fabrication would be required to install something like that..

I just found this post on Club Roadster, seems to have a bit of info as well:
Quote:
* Front calipers didn't fit. I run AP radial mount calipers with custom brackets. Unfortunately, the Keislers run a thicker brake bracket on the spindle than OEM. Unless your caliper or mount attaches to the rotor side of the spindle, you will need to modify your mou t to fit. In our case, we needed to make new brackets offset 3mm.
* Front rotors didn't fit on the MR2 hubs. The actual hub itself is around 1.5mm-2mm larger I. Diameter than a Miata hub. We had enough material on the inside of our rotor hat to machine them larger to fit, but it was a PITA nonetheless. We also had to skim a tiny amount out of the hub centre, which is slightly larger than 54.1mm (at least on the Timken hubs we used).
* Ball joint nuts were a PITA to fit as the clearances are tiny. Also makes installing cotter/split pins difficult, especially in the uppers.
* Even at max toe in, we may have trouble eliminating toe out. It will be close - hard to tell at this stage as we haven't aligned it properly.
* Rear spindles reduce the clearance between the axle and the shock. My Xidas foul the axles. I am running 105mm pinch weld height at rear and 20mm top hat spacers. My bottom spring perch rubs on the axle on both sides. I will either have to modify the bottom Xida mount to space it rearward, or grind a smidge off the lower spring perch.
* I couldn't get my rear wheels on after fitting the spindles. Seems they foul the lower control arm bushes and washers (wheels are 6ul 15x10). I had to grind the bottom of the washers off the outer lower control arm, and also had to file off some of the polyurethane of the Energy bushes. Even so, I will have to take care it doesn't knock off stick-on wheel weights on the inside of the wheels. Not sure yet whether my 15x8 Konigs (wet tires) will fit.

Still yet to test, but safe to say, these things are a real pain to fit and I hope the gains are worth it.
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Old 02-14-2016, 01:01 AM   #12  
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Our V2 BBK fits.

If you have axle/shock interference after install, you didn't get your custom shock dimensions correct.
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Old 03-01-2016, 04:26 PM   #13  
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The Gen 2's are supposed to work with ABS. His own test car has ABS now.
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Old 02-27-2018, 05:38 PM   #14  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTUBA View Post
My feedback is if you are still ising stock shocks and springs....there is NO WAY you should be considering buying a set of drop spindles as your first suspension mod.
Groan. They are EXACTLY what he should buy first. If the man wants the best suspension set up for a NA/NB he needs to start with the spindles. Everything else will be throw away if he does the spindles later. I hope you've all seen what 949 is doing now that these have matured.

This is an old thread but mis-info lives forever if not corrected.
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Old 02-27-2018, 07:49 PM   #15  
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Just for the record, I have Zossy's setup for sale (with Xidas) ATM, less the AP fronts (though they might be available too). All nicely debugged as per above, plus a bit more, although he hadn't got around to connecting up the ABS. That car was crazy fast, but I know they put a lot of effort into getting it that way.

Sadly I didn't get to install it on my car before I changed direction, hence the sale.

I haven't put it up here because of freight costs, but if anyone is interested in it I would be prepared to investigate the costs of shipping.
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Old 02-27-2018, 07:58 PM   #16  
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Originally Posted by BAHKACK View Post
Groan. They are EXACTLY what he should buy first. If the man wants the best suspension set up for a NA/NB he needs to start with the spindles. Everything else will be throw away if he does the spindles later. I hope you've all seen what 949 is doing now that these have matured.

This is an old thread but mis-info lives forever if not corrected.
Unless the OP is ready to spend 8-10k in suspension componentry alone, he should start by buying a decent set of shocks for his existing arms and spindles and developing the car from there. Once he reaches a point where the spindles would be substantially helpful to him, the original set of "throw-away" shocks will seem like a prior lifetime. It would be far more foolish to dump the money into the spindles, custom shocks, custom arms, sphericals, etc, etc, etc. without understanding what any of them do. You are advocating putting the cart before the horse.

The guy you quote as spouting "mis-information" is arguably one of the most technically competent individuals on this forum. He also uses Keisler spindles on his own car. Proceed at your own peril on that front.
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Old 02-28-2018, 08:58 AM   #17  
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post

The guy you quote as spouting "mis-information" is arguably one of the most technically competent individuals on this forum. He also uses Keisler spindles on his own car. Proceed at your own peril on that front.
Savington, sorry, I'm not impressed. And no, it's not 8-10k in components. Don't judge by a 34 post count. You don't know who I am. I've been involved with these for more than 12 years.
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Old 02-28-2018, 09:42 AM   #18  
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Sounds like you've gained a lot of knowledge in the 4 months since you last asked Fisher Price level questions in the Better Bilstein thread. Care to share what you know now?
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Old 02-28-2018, 09:53 AM   #19  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAHKACK View Post
Savington, sorry, I'm not impressed. And no, it's not 8-10k in components. Don't judge by a 34 post count. You don't know who I am. I've been involved with these for more than 12 years.
I really don't care if some self proclaimed expert is impressed by me, my opinion or my car. You aren't my target audience. When major automotive manufactures start featuring your car on their web-pages, when major tire manufactures use you and your car's likenesses in their advertisements, when you start winning championships.....you'll be at the entry level of people who MIGHT impress me and who's opinions MIGHT be a blip on my radar.

And you really don't math well for someone who claims to be a suspension guru.
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Old 02-28-2018, 10:07 AM   #20  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAHKACK View Post
Savington, sorry, I'm not impressed. And no, it's not 8-10k in components. Don't judge by a 34 post count. You don't know who I am. I've been involved with these for more than 12 years.
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