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Old 12-25-2013, 08:04 AM   #1
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Default Keisler automation spindles

Sorry I'm lazy and just posted a link. I just haven't seen anyone post this yet.

Miata Drop Spindles - ClubRoadster.net
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Old 12-25-2013, 08:45 AM   #2
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Old 12-25-2013, 09:12 AM   #3
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Yes and now he is starting to sell them.
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Old 12-25-2013, 05:54 PM   #4
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Unfortunate that the price went up so much from his earlier estimate...
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Old 12-25-2013, 07:04 PM   #5
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I have a prototype set. Very nice parts. A few tweaks necessary to go from proto to production IMO, but nothing Keisler hasn't been made aware of already. We helped him tweak things like switching from Miata front hubs to MR2 front hubs and designing the spindles to compensate for the camber loss that you get from effectively raising the car by 1.5". I have plans to get them on Rover and test them in the spring, but it's not as simple as just "bolt on and go".

The big sticking point is the shocks. Bolt these onto an otherwise well-prepped car (assuming XIDA 800/500, R-comps, RB tubular FSB, etc) and you'll just end up bottoming out the tires everywhere. Lift the car and put in a long enough bumpstop to prevent that and droop travel will be nonexistent. At bare minimum, you need to drop the shock by about an inch using a tophat spacer of some sort. I'll test the spindles in Rover using something like this. Eventually the spindles will live on Theseus, which will get a custom shock (either XIDA or some other AST variant) with shaft and body lengthened by 1" to take advantage of the extra room provided by the drop spindle.

Once that bullet has been bitten, the benefits are huge. We're still limited by the upper fenderwell for bump travel, so all that extra room goes into droop. 1" of extra droop travel equates to a 20-25% increase, depending on how good/bad your shocks are, which means better contact over curbs and better drive exiting corners (both tires stay on the ground). Because the geometry has been corrected so much, you can run less spring rate for the same roll stiffness, which means a more compliant ride over kerbs and bumps without sacrificing sharpness. Huge benefits all the way through the setup.

Sorry to say it, but if a $1250 price tag scares you off, you weren't ready to actually take advantage of all of the benefits of these anyway. It's $1250 + MR2 hubs + rear bearings/hubs + shock spacers (meh)/lengthened shocks (schwing). It's a significant upgrade at significant cost, so nothing new to those of you who have built motors or switched from BEGi to ABSURDflow/ARTech setup.
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Old 12-26-2013, 06:26 PM   #6
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How are you planning on using that extra droop travel? My front bar already binds in single wheel droop, like the rear bar does, before utilizing all the droop travel of my front xidas already. The tubular arms I'm working on will mount the sway bar endlink lower so I can have a longer endlink and more travel before bind but I'm not sure how much more.
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Old 12-26-2013, 07:00 PM   #7
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Dropping the LCA by ~1" at the shock means you get to elongate the endlink by ~1" as well.
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Old 12-26-2013, 08:50 PM   #8
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Good to see you'll be taking advantage of his parts Savington! I've seen his work first hand and it's always impressed me.
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Old 12-26-2013, 10:41 PM   #9
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Not saying they're too expensive Andrew, just unhappy the price went up from the ~$450/end they were going to be when I first showed them to you.
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Old 12-27-2013, 02:01 AM   #10
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Old 12-27-2013, 02:16 AM   #11
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Savington
Was the spindle lighter then stock with the mr2 hub installed? I'm pretty sure with the mr2 hub installed there was no weight savings for mine. If I remember right it was just slightly heavier.
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Old 12-27-2013, 03:52 AM   #12
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Are the MR2 hubs a big upgrade? I haven't ever looked at them but the OEM miata hubs are often cited as a main problem with a high power miata (LSx or big turbo) being competitive in the fast endurance classes.
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Old 12-28-2013, 01:43 PM   #13
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Reworked suspension, hubs, turbo etc, it's probably close to the price of buying a different car to track.
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wannafbody View Post
Reworked suspension, hubs, turbo etc, it's probably close to the price of buying a different car to track.
On which you will rework the suspension, brakes etc and most probably have a bigger rubber budget (unless you are thinking lightweight alternatives like Elise, Sevens etc).
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post

Sorry to say it, but if a $1250 price tag scares you off, you weren't ready to actually take advantage of all of the benefits of these anyway. It's $1250 + MR2 hubs + rear bearings/hubs + shock spacers (meh)/lengthened shocks (schwing). It's a significant upgrade at significant cost, so nothing new to those of you who have built motors or switched from BEGi to ABSURDflow/ARTech setup.
I am interested to see if we can make em work with my current suspension. I was trying to visualize how the "shock spacer" would work for me. I need to see how much exposed thread I have on the shocks. I think new hats would be the cleanest solution. One way or the other I will find a way.

I was hoping to be over the development portion of things but there seems to be a endless parade of new bits to seduce me into another round of mods.
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:15 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k24madness View Post
I am interested to see if we can make em work with my current suspension. I was trying to visualize how the "shock spacer" would work for me. I need to see how much exposed thread I have on the shocks. I think new hats would be the cleanest solution. One way or the other I will find a way.

I was hoping to be over the development portion of things but there seems to be a endless parade of new bits to seduce me into another round of mods.
It would literally just be a chunk of metal in the shape of the tophat hat bolted between the tophat and the chassis, no change to the shock assembly itself besides pressing the studs out of the tophat and either using bolts or longer studs.
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Old 12-30-2013, 02:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
How are you planning on using that extra droop travel? My front bar already binds in single wheel droop, like the rear bar does, before utilizing all the droop travel of my front xidas already. The tubular arms I'm working on will mount the sway bar endlink lower so I can have a longer endlink and more travel before bind but I'm not sure how much more.
It's not extra droop travel. The spindles relocate the tire further up so it will hit the body. The spacer just puts the wheel back in the same bump/droop zone as it was before the spindles. The difference is the roll centers are now better due to the control arm angles.

We're testing the spindles on our 95R along with some prototype longer Xidas in the next few months. For a while at least, it'll also have our 9000rpm 200whp N/A engine. That might be fun to drive, dunno.
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Old 12-30-2013, 02:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
It's not extra droop travel. The spindles relocate the tire further up so it will hit the body. The spacer just puts the wheel back in the same bump/droop zone as it was before the spindles. The difference is the roll centers are now better due to the control arm angles.

We're testing the spindles on our 95R along with some prototype longer Xidas in the next few months. For a while at least, it'll also have our 9000rpm 200whp N/A engine. That might be fun to drive, dunno.
Andrew mentioned alternate version shocks that could be used with these spindles would have longer droop travel since longer bodied xidas would have more travel length but still be limited in jounce travel. Thats why I said that. But yes, just spacing out current shocks doesnt get you any extra droop travel.
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k24madness View Post
I am interested to see if we can make em work with my current suspension. I was trying to visualize how the "shock spacer" would work for me. I need to see how much exposed thread I have on the shocks. I think new hats would be the cleanest solution. One way or the other I will find a way.
Doesn't matter how many exposed threads you have on the shock - the spacer moves the tophat down. New tophats would be extremely expensive as one-offs - probably something like $750, which is most of the way to the price of just having the shocks lengthened.
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Old 01-02-2014, 05:48 AM   #20
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More space for shocks will make it easier/possible for many other shocks to work decently (regardless of internal construction).
Not to take anything away from the Xidas, but their travel advantage will be less of a selling point if you go with these.
I would not have needed to use the holesaw on my tub to use NA style raised tophhats in the rear.
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