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Old 01-18-2013, 02:00 AM   #1
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Default Koni Sport, possible the Koni race may ride better on the street ?

current setup

Koni sports with GC 440/300 springs.
FCM 36mm bumpstops with NB mounts
height 12.75 r 12.5f

Not happy with how the car rides at times on the street. I know a good chunk of this might be do to the fact that I do not currently have any bracing done. I do plan to add framerails/rollbar/doorbars/frogarms in the future. I also know im in need of more travel in the rear and am planning to get ISC mounts in the rear

question I have now is would a koni race shock with say 600lb springs up front ride better on the street than 440lb springs on koni sports ??

I really wish I could jump on the Xida train. maybe in a few years but they are out of my price range for acouple years
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:12 AM   #2
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Don't waste any money on the konis. Is your ride bouncy? They're probably just blown, they apparently do that in 10-20,000 miles, which should be nothing for a "good" shock.

If you get anything, buy bilsteins. They should slot in with your current hardware more or less, and ride much better.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:32 AM   #3
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koni sports are harsh and not fun to DD. /thread.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:24 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
koni sports are harsh and not fun to DD. /thread.
yeah at times they are harsh for sure. Thats why im wondering if the koni race might actually ride a little better on the street since they were made to handle higher spring rates.

Braineak, what was your setup when you had konis on your car ? mounts ? spring rates ? bumpstops ?
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:03 AM   #5
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Anyone ? I might PM savington about this. Ive found past posts of his were he seemed to really enjoy the Koni Race/GC setup before he went to Xidas
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:55 AM   #6
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I'm running 450/300 with Koni sports. Ride is pretty shitty and the shocks are not blown as far as I can tell but the shocks are very very tired. Not sure if Koni Race would net the results that you want. I'd go with Bilstein.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:30 AM   #7
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The cost of Koni Races, new springs, frog arms, and frame rails puts you pretty damn close to Xidas. The Races should ride a little better, but not significantly, and not $1400 better.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gt2560rMiata View Post
Braineak, what was your setup when you had konis on your car ? mounts ? spring rates ? bumpstops ?
I had them with stock springs and 9097 bumps for a few years, then FM springs w/ 48mm (IIRC) bumps for a few more, then 550/300 shortly, then 400/250 before I finally got tired of messing with them and sold them.

I'd say the happiest I ever was with them was with the FM springs; I always regreted "upgrading" them to collars.

Even so, everytime I drive a miata equipped with Koni Shocks I know right away; When you get in the car and every single imperfection in the road causes you mild concussion and brain hemorrhage it's easy to spot. There's something about the way you hit a pothole in the road and the shocks do their best to transfer and multiply the impact through your spine and chasis that screams: Koni.

In contrast, my tiens are 400/335 and much more comfortable and inspire much better confidence in the performance area.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:34 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
The cost of Koni Races, new springs, frog arms, and frame rails puts you pretty damn close to Xidas. The Races should ride a little better, but not significantly, and not $1400 better.
The frog arms/frame rails are something I plan on doing. even If i was able to get xidas id still want to to the bracing

Found this on M.net that you posted Sav
GC coilovers & Koni Race [Archive] - MX-5 Miata Forum

"The ride quality is damn good, though. I gave another member who was considering my setup a ride in my car, since he was very worried about what he might be getting into on a car he had to drive regularly on the street. 10 minutes on some nasty, bumpy backroads, and he was hooked. The setup is really nice to drive on city streets, and it doesn't feel as stiff as it is by a longshot"

Im just wanting something that can handle bumpy roads a little better than the sports without spending too much more money. race valving and new springs could be dont for less than $600 I believe
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Even so, everytime I drive a miata equipped with Koni Shocks I know right away; When you get in the car and every single imperfection in the road causes you mild concussion and brain hemorrhage it's easy to spot. There's something about the way you hit a pothole in the road and the shocks do their best to transfer and multiply the impact through your spine and chasis that screams: Koni.
Dammit. Sav's review of the RX-7 clutch diff made me convert back to an open, but that gained me $200.

Your review of Konis is going to cost me $400 for Bilsteins. Bastard.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:35 PM   #11
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lol. Some people try to convince themselves they like them...you might be one; ymmv?
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:03 PM   #12
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What sux is that I have Koni 8610's (Race) on my MR2 and it rides very nice on 700 front and 450 rears on the street.

Miata...not so much. Had two sets of yellows on it and still can't get the spring rates or bound setting on them to where I can say 'it rides nice' .I have been eyeing the XIDA's
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:30 AM   #13
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Well I think ive made my mind up. Expect to see a Koni/GC setup for sale in the near future. Hoping to have the money saved up by early march for the Xidas
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gt2560rMiata View Post
yeah at times they are harsh for sure. Thats why im wondering if the koni race might actually ride a little better on the street since they were made to handle higher spring rates.

Braineak, what was your setup when you had konis on your car ? mounts ? spring rates ? bumpstops ?
Harsh is usually associated with abrupt jolts, which is usually associated with an overdamped shock adjustment. If you're riding around with the Koni sport set on full stiff, then you're probably bouncing around like a pogo stick and the springs are mechanically 'soft' relative to your shock setting. Try dialing back a click in the front and two clicks on the rear and see how it feels.

I drive 450/300 rates with Illuminas set at 3-4/5 stiff in the front and 2-3/5 stiff in the rear, and it is wonderfully comfortable on the street. When I take them to 5/5 in front and 4/5 in the rear for autocross, then drive it on the street, it's jolty and not comfortable at all...however the overdamping does help with faster suspension response for autocross at the time.

Harshness doesn't sound like blown shocks to me, since blown shocks usually equate to a 'loose' feel.

from an ME.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:31 AM   #15
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Harsh is usually associated with abrupt jolts, which is usually associated with an overdamped shock adjustment. If you're riding around with the Koni sport set on full stiff, then you're probably bouncing around like a pogo stick and the springs are mechanically 'soft' relative to your shock setting. Try dialing back a click in the front and two clicks on the rear and see how it feels.

I drive 450/300 rates with Illuminas set at 3-4/5 stiff in the front and 2-3/5 stiff in the rear, and it is wonderfully comfortable on the street. When I take them to 5/5 in front and 4/5 in the rear for autocross, then drive it on the street, it's jolty and not comfortable at all...however the overdamping does help with faster suspension response for autocross at the time.

Harshness doesn't sound like blown shocks to me, since blown shocks usually equate to a 'loose' feel.

from an ME.
Yes, Koni sports dialed up are very jittery. Matched with the spring rates can be pretty supple.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:55 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cymx5 View Post
Harsh is usually associated with abrupt jolts, which is usually associated with an overdamped shock adjustment.

I drive 450/300 rates with Illuminas set at 3-4/5 stiff in the front and 2-3/5 stiff in the rear, and it is wonderfully comfortable on the street. When I take them to 5/5 in front and 4/5 in the rear for autocross, then drive it on the street, it's jolty and not comfortable at all...however the overdamping does help with faster suspension response for autocross at the time.
I appreciate that you want to give your two cents, but one cannot simply compare the illuminas to the konis in terms of cormfort, because there is no comparison.

The Konis are designed for stock spring rates and have too little compression and too much rebound. They are "faster" at autox because they are actually designed to compress to the bump very easily with stock springs, and then, due to the high rebound, stay on them throughout the duration of the corner to effectively give you ∞ spring rates. The intent behind the design was to give a preformance edge for CS without getting bumped into CSP.

On a koni shock, going from full soft to any other setting makes the suspension harsh to harsher without any noticable performance benefits.

The only reason they are even popular is because they are just another bit of "m.net gospel" that the rest of us have to try to erase from conventional wisdom. You had members on that site promoting them for over ten years, it wasnt until JasonC SBB and "Shake" started really going through the efforts of finding out what's bet for the miata until the market exploded with different options that blow the Koni out of the water.

Hell, I dont think one reputable aftermarket miata parts store even still sells konis. youll typically see illuminas or bilstiens for an ots shock.



They see my konis, they hatin', trying to catch me ridin' bumpstops:

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Old 01-23-2013, 01:23 PM   #17
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Honestly I don't hate Koni's and they have been very good on my Celica's and my MR2's.

Saying that I have not in any way have found a way to get them to work on the miata for like 5 years now. I could prolly get them valved to what I want...but by that point I might as well just get me something nicer.
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:19 PM   #18
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Ooo thanks for the lesson B. Learn something new everyday .

Ironic addition to the discomfort conversation: my wife finds my Miata more comfortable than the last Mazda we had which had stock springs and Koni's.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:41 PM   #19
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Your review of Konis is going to cost me $400 for Bilsteins. Bastard.
This.

I have koni sports with 2,000 miles on them. I've tried them dialed all the way soft through stiff. Never enjoyed the ride.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:59 PM   #20
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What sux is that I have Koni 8610's (Race) on my MR2 and it rides very nice on 700 front and 450 rears on the street.

Yeah. That is probably not a fair comparison. the 8610 is a mcstrut insert, no doubt you had more travel _and_ appropriate bump/rebound ratios. I have seen and owned sedans (*cough* rally cars *cough*) that ride very well on them at rates of 700 lb/in and higher.

d
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