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I tried to get the Supermiata Dual Duty alignment today. That is: -2.5 Front Camber 3.5-4 Degrees of Caster 0 Front total toe -2.0 Rear camber Rear total toe + 1/8" (.12")
Photo of the final alignment numbers attached. I was also seated in the car during the process.
Alignment guy said front camber maxed out at around -1.2 or -1.1 each side with caster at around 4.1. He could get the rear to -2.0. He said adjustable lower control arms should be the solution.
Suspension: Xida XL 450/300, Pinch weld height 5.75" front, 6" rear. New used lower control arms from Treasure Coast Miata, New Supermiata Lower Ball Joints and Outer tie rods Inner tie rods replaced around Dec 2019. New Mazda Competition lower control arm bushings. Eccentric bolts were replaced around Dec. 2019.
Reason for replacing the LCAs was the same alignment guy who did my alignment again today in Dec. 2019 said the driver side LCA looked kinked at the joint/curvature next to the rear bushing for that Front Driver Side LCA and was probably the reason why I couldn't get the Caster (not camber) even for the front. I can't find the sheet but I think 4.5-5 Passenger side and 3.5 Driver side caster at that time. During that alignment I was shooting for the Fyin Miata's alignment numbers.
If he had hit -2 I would have chalked it up to not having the extended lower ball joints that the Supermiata alignment page said I might need.
During my suspension install this past weekend I jacked each brake rotor with a piece of lumber on the jack until I raised each corner of the car off the jackstand. I then torqued down the UCA 21mm bolt/nut, Top Hat bolts, Lower ball joint bolts and castle nut, Lower Shock mount bolt, outer tie rod castle nut, LCA eccentric bolts (unnecessary, but didn't know for sure at the time).
Did I raise each corner to high before torquing the bolts down? It must've been about 6" off the jackstand for each corner. I did realize I used the NA's suspension max torque specs which 1 ft lb below the minimum for the LBJ bolts and lower shock mount bolts in the front so I torqued them while suspension was unloaded to be in spec for my NB2. Did not loosen during that process. Not sure if that's an issue.
Is my ride height not low enough to offer more camber? Is there something I can examine for wear/damage that would affect the front camber maxing out at around -1.1?
This was a small performance shop not a chain. Do I need a new alignment shop?
At that height, you need Extended Lower Ball Joints (ELBJ).
Made by Bauer, sold many places, including 949 / SuperMiata.
DNM
Is it common for that to be the max front camber for an NB2? I'm not sure what stock pinch weld heights are for the NB2s, but I'm guessing I'm ~.5" lower than factory new stock height.
I wouldn't have been surprised if I maxed out around between -1.5 to -2, but -1.1/-1.2 caught me off guard.
Ed from Supermiata responded to me in an email stating that hitting -2 or close to it shouldn't be an issue at stock height with everything in good shape. So I'm unsure of what to inspect and replace. Would worn upper ball joints and/or UCA bushings limit me?
I see that the ELBJs are on backorder right now. If that's the solution then I'll pick em up for sure, but I also wanna make sure I'm not overlooking any underlying issues. Replacing the UCAs or at least the UBJ with a press and the rest of the bushings all around are on my to do list, but wanted to save and recoup some cash after my Xida purchase.
Last edited by tachyon66654; 07-21-2020 at 03:10 PM.
You are pretty much Maxed out on Camber, especially on the Driver’s Side.
I apologize that I did not read all of your first post. You already discussed ELBJs
I, too have heard that one should be able to hit -2*.
But your goal is still -2.5*.
Camber is the easiest thing to measure. Look it up. An iPhone, a level surface, and straight edge of appropriate length is all you need. Then you could at least verify the shop’s numbers.
DNM
Last edited by DNMakinson; 07-21-2020 at 07:14 PM.
Reason: Camber
You are pretty much Maxed out on Camber, especially on the Driver’s Side.
I apologize that I did not read all of your first post. You already discussed ELBJs
I, too have heard that one should be able to hit -2*.
But your goal is still -2.5*.
Camber is the easiest thing to measure. Look it up. An iPhone, a level surface, and straight edge of appropriate length is all you need. Then you could at least verify the shop’s numbers.
DNM
Than you. Placed an order for the ELBJ and will have to wait til the beginning of August.
You are pretty much Maxed out on Camber, especially on the Driver’s Side.
I apologize that I did not read all of your first post. You already discussed ELBJs
I, too have heard that one should be able to hit -2*.
But your goal is still -2.5*.
Camber is the easiest thing to measure. Look it up. An iPhone, a level surface, and straight edge of appropriate length is all you need. Then you could at least verify the shop’s numbers.
DNM
I was able to achieve -2 degrees camber with +4 degree caster up front, for what it's worth.
Stock suspension other than coilovers, 4.75in ride height measured at the pinch welds.
Alignment shop was skeptical they could achieve these numbers - i was worried maybe the lied about it. Just measured with my phone per your suggestion, looks like -2 dead on.
I think it depends on the car but I could only get -2 on the front one side and -1.5 on the other at 5" ride height. Mine is literally on the alignment stands at home right now as I make some last tweaks but I ended up with -1.5 front and -2 rear.....I could get alittle more from the rear but not much. I was shooting for the street/HPDE setup from 949 racing as well but ultimately the best I could get was closer the the "IceHawk" setup on the camber....
FYI the phone is very accurate. I tested the phone next to my camber gauge and it was pretty much spot on.
I dont think you need a new alignment shop - dropping another 3/4" or 1" would help but I think you would end up like me only at -1.5 to 2*......getting to 2.5 in the front seems impossible unless your riding on the bump stops to me......
07-21-2020, 12:55 PM
Maxed out front camber -1.1 to -1.2
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