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Old 02-20-2017, 08:28 AM   #1
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Default MFactory upgraded gearsets

I have asked MFactory to consider designing a stronger gearset for the Miata transmission. There would need to be a concensus of which trans and most desired gear set before anything can be moved forward on.

I believe that the 6 Speed trans is a better platform to start with due to what appears to be a more rigid case design, I would like to hear what others think.

The most common gripe about the 6 speed box is that it is too short, especially 1st gear. With the rather wide availablility of rear choices 3.6-4.7 one would likely be able to fix that if so desired.

The 5 speed trans is MUCH cheaper and abundant, is said to shift much smoother than its 6 speed counterpart and replacement parts are much cheaper and are more widely available.

I would like to hear what everyone else would like to have is possible and gauge interest before wasting anyones time or money.

Obviously MFactory will need to set prices but they will first need to know what everyone expects.
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Old 02-20-2017, 08:44 AM   #2
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I vote for five speed. I like it smooth and cheap, like so many other aspects of my life. ��

Follow up question. Is it the gear edge strength or case flex that cause 5 speed failures?
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Old 02-20-2017, 09:24 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miater View Post
I vote for five speed. I like it smooth and cheap, like so many other aspects of my life. ��

Follow up question. Is it the gear edge strength or case flex that cause 5 speed failures?
There is the Quaife option available for the 5 speed now. Helical cut gears are designed to produce little axial force.

Straight cut gears vs helical | Automotive Thinker - Discussing the finer points of automobiles
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Old 02-20-2017, 09:31 AM   #4
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So I don't want to be a debbie downer, but I am doubtful that this will go anywhere. Quaife had a "stronger" gear set for sale for a good while for the 5 speed. It was very expensive and eventually turned it out it was not much stronger then stock. FM dropped selling them due to issues. What I am trying to say is I am betting this will end up being far more expensive then expect, not as strong, and you probably won't get enough people willing to put up money up front to get them built. At least not at a price point that will make it competitive to the T5 setup that TSE is working on.

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Old 02-20-2017, 09:38 AM   #5
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From a marketing perspective, I would think a 6-speed because then perhaps some parts would also swap in to other Aisin AZ-6 boxes. At the same time, it isn't like these Aisin boxes are equivalent pieces.
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Old 02-20-2017, 10:13 AM   #6
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The 6 speed box may only require a 3/4/5 upgrade that would significantly reduce the price and difficulty of the upgrade. I have worked with MFactory gears in the past with Honda's and they engineer their products as drop in replacements unlike what Quaife was offering.
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Old 02-20-2017, 01:30 PM   #7
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This topic has been beaten to death. Tons and tons of discussions of what appropriate gear ratios look like and what the current issues are with the current offerings. Based on your posts, you've missed a lot of that discussion. I'd suggest starting there instead.
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Old 02-20-2017, 01:54 PM   #8
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This topic has been beaten to death. Tons and tons of discussions of what appropriate gear ratios look like and what the current issues are with the current offerings. Based on your posts, you've missed a lot of that discussion. I'd suggest starting there instead.

Ive read and read and read and no one has suggested making replacement gearsets for 6 speeds from a reputable source. No one has gone beyond suggesting using transmissions as consumables.

I can see how this type of solution is not in your interest, not everyone will want to slap on a T5.
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Old 02-20-2017, 03:06 PM   #9
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I'm no metallurgist but I'd wager that transmission gears are already made from pretty beefy material from the factory. There's a reason for the T5 swap. Quaife already made gears and they were not as promised.

Turbo Miatas are just way too far above the power they were designed for. Even if you make it out of unobtainium a 1/4" drive ratchet is never going to be as strong as 3/8" drive. You can go the exotic route, which is expensive with maybe a small % gain, or just find something bigger/stronger that's widely available and make it fit.
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Old 02-20-2017, 03:43 PM   #10
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Just saying that several of your statements in this thread are false. 3/4/5 is insufficient and there has been lots of discussion of alternate 6-speed gearsets from multiple reputable sources. If you missed those discussions, you're starting behind the 8-ball.
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Old 02-20-2017, 03:53 PM   #11
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It's easy to sound like your right when you say nothing.
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Old 02-20-2017, 03:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
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It's easy to sound like your right when you say nothing.
You have been here 2 years. Savington has been here for 11. These ideas have been discussed before in many threads. You are sounding like the people who would come into the studs stretching thread and spout out idea's that have been talked about years ago like we have not thought about them or tried them out.
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Old 02-20-2017, 04:27 PM   #13
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I've read the threads on the Quaife box's, that's why I am pushing the 6 speed box. Axial load is dependent on the helix angle on the gears, reducing the angle MAY be a way to reduce this effect. I am not proposing designing anything myself, I am just attempting to get a concensus on what would be desired and asking a supplier if they would able to support the needs.

Just because I have been a member on this board for a specific amount of time has absolutely nothing to do with my experience. If you would like to be steered by someone who is out to profit from constant berating anything he doesn't sell the whole of the community will suffer.
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Old 02-20-2017, 04:45 PM   #14
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I don't necessarily agree with your sentiment 100%. I mean this place really is the Mecca of turbo Miatas which are like better versions of the everyman race car if such a thing exists.

This transmission gear thing however is tough. It's like asking a company to design and build the exact same thing that Mazda did, only better. It sounds like a pretty tall order. Like making a 2x4 that's twice as strong as a 2x4.

Last edited by Art; 02-20-2017 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 02-20-2017, 04:57 PM   #15
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I agree this is the Mecca for turbo MIATAS other platforms are running north of 1000hp in syncro boxes designed to fit inside a factory box. Again I do not pretend to know how to make this happen, just looking for a set of parameters to have a MFR work around.

https://www.speedfactoryracing.net/d...and-upper-cuff

Yes that is a very expensive example but it is designed to fit in a factory box and survives 10x the factory power level the box was originally designed to support.
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Old 02-20-2017, 05:14 PM   #16
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1) Many Honda engines are just about the pinnacle of engineering in my opinion :flame suit on: You can run 10s in the 1/4 mile without changing anything except adding a turbo more fuel and slicks with a Honda B series more or less.

2) That's front wheel drive and there's been a huge amount of R&D on Honda transmissions for drag racing. They even make a CNC billet case IIRC.

3) You just linked a $7k+ gear set.

Off topic, if the Miata came with a VTEC engine circa 1990 and above and possibly a hard top it would pretty much be perfection. K swap anyone?

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Old 02-20-2017, 05:17 PM   #17
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oops meant to save edit instead of double post
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Old 02-20-2017, 05:38 PM   #18
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It takes an extremely talented driver and some luck to get anywhere near that on a B Honda in a light chassis. We are not comparing engines, but a factory with a turbo engine does not support much more TQ than a BP. The Honda piston ring lands typically fail before the rods.

Yes R&D is that not the goal?

Yes a 7k gear set, final drive and handcuff that supports 10x not 2x
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Old 02-20-2017, 08:15 PM   #19
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MFacotry, if they can make a 5 speed set good for 500ish hp with better gearing. That would be better. If they cant accomplish that in a 5 speed case then 6 speed it is.
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Old 02-20-2017, 08:35 PM   #20
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Thank You,

What specifically would you like to see different with the ratios in the each box?

i hear some complains that 1st and 2nd are too short on the 6 speed box, but not a lot of critique on the ratios on the 5speed.
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