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Old 03-11-2012, 04:02 PM   #1
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Default Money to burn (949 clutch)

Time for a new clutch. Looking for input on why I should not go a 949 double disc. My ACT stage 1 has issues and due a fix. I have searched around quite a bit on the clutch options and was looking at the happy meal supersize. While the base meal is good enough for my stock 99 motor. A rebuild with 17ish boost should put me over that clutch. With master/ slave and braided line to support the extra pedal stresses, the cost is in the $800 range. So the grand for the 949 seems like a small amount to resolve the PP stresses. I really want to only do this once and be done with it. Clutch has slipped under power since turbo. Want to know from all you experts is am I throwing more money than I need to at this clutch fix? Some of that money could go toward my pathetic suspension.

95 miata with T03/04E. .5 A/R targeting the typical 230ish HP.
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Old 03-11-2012, 04:24 PM   #2
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get the 949 twin organics (verify this with them over the phone) and be a happy camper.

just be aware that it wont last as long as an oem style under daily driver conditions.
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Old 03-11-2012, 04:52 PM   #3
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dude if you're not going for over 300 hp get the flyin miata clutch its way cheaper and a better dd clutch, and is rated for 300+ hp unless you install it wrong
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Old 03-11-2012, 05:04 PM   #4
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I've been in 2 cars with the 949 clutch. It's really nice. Pedal feels good and the car revs fast. It definitely feels better than the ACT, but will wear about twice as fast. You'll have to pick which tradeoff is best for you.
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Old 03-11-2012, 05:15 PM   #5
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Y8s - yeah that is what I keep coming up with. Clutch life is a concern. hoping for 30k.

Witty - 300hp is pretty much my target. To many things to break above that an not a good DD anymore. But I am not finding the flying miata clutch to be "way" cheaper. I see $800 vs $1k due to hardware for the extra pedal force.. Am I missing something?
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Old 03-11-2012, 05:23 PM   #6
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Our posts crossed Ben - that is just the kind of feed back I am looking for. Being a long time bike guy I like the improved clutch. Twice the wear kinda bites, But I suspect I will be in the car for other repairs/builds before I can wear out a clutch anyway. The only caveat would be if I found the funds to go V8 I would never look back. May regret the light flywheel with my A/C. but I like my idle up 1200 to 1400 anyway.
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Old 03-11-2012, 05:23 PM   #7
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Once the 949 clutch wears out, do you have to replace the whole thing or can you just get new disks/resurface/whatever?

I'm just curious.
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Old 03-11-2012, 05:30 PM   #8
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All you need is the flyin miata clutch? On a dd you don't need a lightweight flywheel, but you could get it if you want. their kit comes with everything you will need. You could also get a new slave cylinder and stainless clutch line, but that will be the same cost as for the 949 twin.

I'm confused about what extra parts you think you need.

http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?...umber=08-19010
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Old 03-11-2012, 05:59 PM   #9
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I like the base price. Not real confident of results with resurfacing the flywheel. Current is ACT I that has always slipped when the tune is up where I want it. Currently have a stock disk in it and won't hold 7psi. given the amount is slippage on this flywheel I am reluctant to reuse it for fear of hardening with heat. If I go up on boost with a rebuild, (planning) FM1 clutch is on the edge. Extra parts is for Master/Slave and braided line with FM2 cuz I read everywhere about failure. buddy's 1.6 just crapped the TB for example. Extra pressure for more rating always = more pedal force and all the undesirables that go with it. Really wanting to not spend the money so grateful for the discussion. If I was staying at 230ish FM clutch is good. Just can't see the value yet of 300hp and FM2 vs 949 DD clutch.

Soviet - good question that I may have to ask. Would think if the clutch is replaced before slippage or wear damage it might be just disks for me. Part of the value of a 400lb rating means there is room for wear degrading thruput if only 300ftlb. If on the edge of the rating I would expect to resurface all. But I am a guy who replaces ALL the clutch and frictions on a auto trans to make it right. Industry standard is frictions only. But then again I don't make a living rebuilding trans.

Boy am I wordy today. - Again. Thanks for the dialog. Plan to order tonight or tomorrow and want more confidence.
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Old 03-11-2012, 06:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
I've been in 2 cars with the 949 clutch. It's really nice. Pedal feels good and the car revs fast. It definitely feels better than the ACT, but will wear about twice as fast. You'll have to pick which tradeoff is best for you.
On the 949racing website it says: "As a bonus, the twin plate discs will last twice as long as an equivalent single disc assembly." Was there a thread somewhere I missed with someone saying their clutch had premature wear problems? IIRC, I have seen emilio posting that the twin disc will last forever if you aren't a terrible driver. That seemed to me to be the main appeal of his setup.

Last edited by crimson_yachiru; 03-11-2012 at 06:30 PM. Reason: can't spell
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Old 03-11-2012, 06:41 PM   #11
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Okay heres the rundown.

You are going to replace the clutch line no matter what. http://trackspeedengineering.com/sto...line-p-90.html
45 bucks.

The FM level 1 clutch barely increases pedal pressure, the level 2 increases a tad bit. If your slave cylinder or master cylinder fail, you will need to replace them WITH BOTH CLUTCHES. If they're in perfect working order, they will work fine FOR BOTH CLUTCHES.

I toasted the crap out of my stock flywheel at 7 psi on stock clutch and 10 psi on stupid f1 stage 2 clutch. I also had a pucked clutch for a while. My resurfaced flywheel is working PERFECTLY.

You asked if it's a waste to get the twin disc clutch, and honestly for your plans IT IS A STUPID IDEA. You mentioned a dd with 300 hp limit, that is the PERFECT LEVEL FOR FM CLUTCH. 949 clutch is for track cars or 400hp.

Also, if something does ever go wrong with a fm clutch, they have the best customer support of any company I've ever worked with in any industry.
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Old 03-11-2012, 06:58 PM   #12
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For a DD get the FM. For a track car, get the 949.

Despite their great customer service, FM won't warranty you if you're making "extra power".
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:37 PM   #13
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hmmm, Guess I will have to think about it some more. My HP goal is really to get this up as quick as my 70 Cutlass (rearended/totaled last summer) So 300 is a guess. The feel of 14psi on a 95 motor is short for sure. There are compromises to each, apparently the FM clutch has a longer throw for one. Given I need to upgrade a whole bunch of parts in power levels i might go to the clutch could be premature. As far as being a stupid idea, I guess it is my desire to put some of our bike technology into my cars. Kinda like the multi-stage damping shocks like XIDA and Ohlins shocks you can now get for a miata that we have had from the factory for bikes for decades now.

Thanks for the input.
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:05 PM   #14
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The 949 clutch is awesome, I've driven one car with it. Unfortunately I cannot run that clutch and will get the FM clutch because I'm too cheap. If I made twice as much cash and had a lift, I might get the twin.
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:52 PM   #15
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awe come on now Hustler. I see you trashing threads everywhere with your charm and whit. Now you come and destroy mine my mind with this fantasy talk. well, given I had enough overtime this week to cover it, I am leaning really hard that way. I pretty much know what I want. And since I have a habit of throwing away good money after bad... If it doesn't work for me I guess could sell it to you for shipping costs.
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:03 PM   #16
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If I had the moolah I would have gotten an 949 clutch. I don't however, so I bought an FM2. So far it's been great holding 300whp. People who drive my car say the pedal is pretty heavy, but I've always liked heavy pedals they have more feel (IMO).
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justaturbo95 View Post
Y8s - yeah that is what I keep coming up with. Clutch life is a concern. hoping for 30k.

Witty - 300hp is pretty much my target. To many things to break above that an not a good DD anymore. But I am not finding the flying miata clutch to be "way" cheaper. I see $800 vs $1k due to hardware for the extra pedal force.. Am I missing something?
you might get 30k on a twin plate if you stay out of stop and go traffic.

remember it's not high hp or miles that kill a clutch, it's starting in first gear and shifting.

I know Emilio says "2x life" for twin discs, but my experience is the opposite. twice as much wear surface = half the life.
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:25 AM   #18
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Yeah, driving habits are tuff to evaluate. I have had many bike tires only last 1k. I had one front bald edge to edge in 600 once. So I understand the concept. Given the in town, it sounds like 20k at best. Changing it once a year does not sound good to me. boy, sound have bought the house with the shop instead of the one the ex wanted. geesh...

falcon - I don't care for a soft clutch either, but I really like the feel of a good multi-pate clutch done properly. Also hated our older iron with a clutch few good drive because it was massively stiff.

More to ponder I guess.
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:45 AM   #19
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fwiw I built myself a twin plate clutch and loved it. but hated replacing it annually.

now I run the FM level 1 and I'm at about 250rwhp. It's super easy to drive but I doubt I have much head room.

if I were building my motor, I'd probably just go Level 2 on a daily driver.
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:51 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justaturbo95 View Post
awe come on now Hustler. I see you trashing threads everywhere with your charm and whit. Now you come and destroy mine my mind with this fantasy talk. well, given I had enough overtime this week to cover it, I am leaning really hard that way. I pretty much know what I want. And since I have a habit of throwing away good money after bad... If it doesn't work for me I guess could sell it to you for shipping costs.
I'm too busy sharing my genetic legacy with the world to do more than two clutch jobs per decade.
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