Money to burn (949 clutch) - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain discuss the wondrous effects of boost and your miata...

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-12-2012, 02:38 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 514
Total Cats: 110
Default

I use the FM Level 2 on my built engine and it works juuuuust fine.
DeerHunter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2012, 04:01 PM   #22
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 119
Total Cats: 2
Default

Sigh... Went ahead and ordered the 949 early this morning. It was time to make one and move on with life. Feel I am already having buyers remorse. lol Oh well. it may be everything I ever wanted. At least in the end I can say I experimented regardless of the outcome. Will have to relate my experiences in 6 months or so. Would be a shame to have to drive my PSD dually dailly cuz of miata maintenance..
Thanks so much for the feedback. All of it was taken in. The 949 or a FM2 clutch is my way to go for future growth. I can turn my boost back up :-) I see a "why did my rods bend?" future posting. lol
Justaturbo95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2012, 05:00 PM   #23
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,040
Total Cats: 407
Default

you'll love it even if you change it often.

The first time you rev the engine with that thing in there, you'll think you're on a motorcycle. BRIM [email protected]#$
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2012, 05:21 PM   #24
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 119
Total Cats: 2
Default

cool, Since I no longer have my bikes, the Miata is the closest I can get to the feeling. I think I will enjoy it. Glad I burned the money. btw - Wanted to thank you for tuning info in your many posts. I have found a wealth of info in the timing discussions to play with.
Justaturbo95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2012, 11:20 PM   #25
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,327
Total Cats: 1,351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
I've been in 2 cars with the 949 clutch. It's really nice. Pedal feels good and the car revs fast. It definitely feels better than the ACT, but will wear about twice as fast. You'll have to pick which tradeoff is best for you.
Ben, is this a guess or have you actually experienced accelerated wear with out twin organic?

Y8S has experience with his own Tilton DIY set up that indicates faster wear but no experience with our twin. More friction area equal less wear, not more. That's just basic physics.

The few customers I have with twin organics that have had the opportunity to inspect it (blown engine or trans), have all reported little or no wear with either heavy track use in a boosted car or daily driving.

Every bit of data I have here indicates our 184mm twin will last at least as long as an OEM 225mm single style system, if not longer

To the OP, an OEM style clutch will be easier to daily drive but if longevity is a concern, you can't do better than our twin organic.
emilio700 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2012, 09:38 AM   #26
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Ben, is this a guess or have you actually experienced accelerated wear with out twin organic?

Y8S has experience with his own Tilton DIY set up that indicates faster wear but no experience with our twin. More friction area equal less wear, not more. That's just basic physics.

The few customers I have with twin organics that have had the opportunity to inspect it (blown engine or trans), have all reported little or no wear with either heavy track use in a boosted car or daily driving.

Every bit of data I have here indicates our 184mm twin will last at least as long as an OEM 225mm single style system, if not longer

To the OP, an OEM style clutch will be easier to daily drive but if longevity is a concern, you can't do better than our twin organic.
It is just a guess, and in fairness my conclusion could be off base. I have no long term wear data for your clutch.

I have driven cars on your clutch, and it's pretty awesome.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2012, 10:51 AM   #27
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,040
Total Cats: 407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Ben, is this a guess or have you actually experienced accelerated wear with out twin organic?

Y8S has experience with his own Tilton DIY set up that indicates faster wear but no experience with our twin. More friction area equal less wear, not more. That's just basic physics.

The few customers I have with twin organics that have had the opportunity to inspect it (blown engine or trans), have all reported little or no wear with either heavy track use in a boosted car or daily driving.

Every bit of data I have here indicates our 184mm twin will last at least as long as an OEM 225mm single style system, if not longer

To the OP, an OEM style clutch will be easier to daily drive but if longevity is a concern, you can't do better than our twin organic.
Here is how I understand it: (and this is totally only in theory so I'll just post a big disclaimer here that your clutch may still last longer regardless)

The number of friction surfaces is irrelevant to wear-per-surface. This is because you're still slipping it the same amount as a regular single disk. The forces are the same in the pressure plate (lets assume--i.e. same pedal pressure but double torque holding for same-size disk). If you slip a single disk, say, 500 rotations and clamp it with 10 lbs of force, then the wear will be the same if you slip two disks 500 rotations when clamped with 10 lbs of force. Same would be true for 10 disks. Same clamping force, same slip distance (or angle).

The reason it only lasts half as long is because you're wearing four surfaces instead of two. Say your single disk clutch has a .280 thick disk and can wear down to .240 before it stops holding. Total wear is .040.

A twin plate clutch would--in theory--slip at the same total wear value (assuming they use a similar pressure plate with a similar clamp distance) of .040 but each disk will only have to have worn half that total amount (.020).

In fact if you pull up Tilton's installation instructions, they say essentially this same thing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tilton
• Discs - Clutch discs start new at .283” thick. These should be replaced when the total pack wears .030”. This means the
individual disc thickness should not be less than:
•Single disc = .253” • Two disc = .268”

source: http://www.tiltonracing.com/pdfs/53.pdf
So... ultimately the twins wear out faster but the disks are only "half" worn out compared to a single disk setup.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2012, 01:23 PM   #28
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,327
Total Cats: 1,351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
The reason it only lasts half as long is because you're wearing four surfaces instead of two. Say your single disk clutch has a .280 thick disk and can wear down to .240 before it stops holding. Total wear is .040.

In fact if you pull up Tilton's installation instructions, they say essentially this same thing:


So... ultimately the twins wear out faster but the disks are only "half" worn out compared to a single disk setup.
Ah, using Tilton's method of determining service limits, that make sense. They say two discs last twice as long as one discs (same diameter) but lose the equivalent amount of material at the same point as a single.

The key here is that our twin is designed to allow both discs to wear to their limits while the cover still has proper articulation. IOW, it's worn out when both discs are 100% worn, not 50% worn as it is with the Tilton.

In practice, the clutch has so little slip that it wears very slowly. Again deferring to the several customers that have inspected theirs and reported "no wear at all". I translate that to no discernible or only slight measureable wear but you get the idea.

We offer replacement discs for $105 each. Have not sold any replacement discs to a twin owner yet.
emilio700 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2012, 02:30 PM   #29
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 119
Total Cats: 2
Default

My clutch should arrive today. I find the wear chat pretty interesting. Looking at other multi-disk set ups I would not expect this clutch to wear much different than a single disk. the only exception would b some airplane brakes. Key to those though is too small for the plane and overworked. Anyway, I am eager to get this thing installed and find out. Reading the comments, I am certain I will enjoy the clutch.

For the bad news- I had a standing offer to my brother to give him this car and build another. Of course I get a call now.lol He wont get it til mid-summer though.
Justaturbo95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2012, 04:24 PM   #30
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,040
Total Cats: 407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Ah, using Tilton's method of determining service limits, that make sense. They say two discs last twice as long as one discs (same diameter) but lose the equivalent amount of material at the same point as a single.

The key here is that our twin is designed to allow both discs to wear to their limits while the cover still has proper articulation. IOW, it's worn out when both discs are 100% worn, not 50% worn as it is with the Tilton.

In practice, the clutch has so little slip that it wears very slowly. Again deferring to the several customers that have inspected theirs and reported "no wear at all". I translate that to no discernible or only slight measureable wear but you get the idea.

We offer replacement discs for $105 each. Have not sold any replacement discs to a twin owner yet.
having the disks worn at 50% was indeed a pain in the ***. If I ever build my motor, I'll serioulsy consider your clutch to hold the extra power. If only for the reason that replacement disks are readily available at a reasonable price. And not custom made every time I need them from some random shop.

One other thing to keep in mind is that on a track, you're not slipping hardly at all. In stop and go traffic you are. My biggest problem was heat management. once the floater warped, it didn't matter how worn things got.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2012, 10:12 AM   #31
Newb
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4
Total Cats: 1
Default

How about Ralco RZ clitch & flywheel? Price is wery interest.
Lacrimosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2012, 11:03 AM   #32
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 119
Total Cats: 2
Default

Price looks good. To good? Did not see any torque figures. The ebay stuff in this price range appear to be a hit or miss. For my interests, a single disk will still have the additional clutch pressure to up the capacity. Which is what i was trying to avoid. And I wanted growth potential. Maybe someone here has run one...

I have a beautiful 949 clutch that I am admiring daily until I get it dropped in.
Justaturbo95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 10:39 AM   #33
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 119
Total Cats: 2
Default

Hey guys, thought I should follow up. Took a while to get the clutch in, then had some non-related issues. Once all sorted out I must say the clutch is excellent. I really like the feel and pressure. The shorter throw makes shifting real sweet. Turned up the boost and got my go fast car back. YAY! Have to agree with the consensus that such a light flywheel is not good for a/c. We shall see how it wears. 231k on the car now.
Justaturbo95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 12:38 PM   #34
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

So. Did you have to pull the motor to install the clutch?
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 03:00 PM   #35
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 119
Total Cats: 2
Default

I pulled only the tranny. Car is pretty much set up so only the clutch remained to be done.
Justaturbo95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2012, 12:59 AM   #36
Newb
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 31
Total Cats: -4
Default

let me know how you like it! im starting my miata now
huskybruiserjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2012, 11:22 AM   #37
Elite Member
iTrader: (17)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Posts: 2,791
Total Cats: 130
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justaturbo95 View Post
Have to agree with the consensus that such a light flywheel is not good for a/c.
Is it noticibly more difficult to idle than the stock flywheel? I've been wanting to buy a lightweight wheel, but I already have issues idling with the AC on. Maybe I should just stick with the stock flywheel.
pdexta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2012, 12:16 PM   #38
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdexta View Post
Is it noticibly more difficult to idle than the stock flywheel? I've been wanting to buy a lightweight wheel, but I already have issues idling with the AC on. Maybe I should just stick with the stock flywheel.
No.

And your car is so pretty that I can't be a jerk about "no".
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2012, 01:19 PM   #39
Junior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 119
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdexta View Post
Is it noticibly more difficult to idle than the stock flywheel? I've been wanting to buy a lightweight wheel, but I already have issues idling with the AC on. Maybe I should just stick with the stock flywheel.
Yes it is. Feels like about 1/2 the inertia of a stock setup if that makes sense. It will have to be in great idle tune to support the a/c at idle on MS1. If you can get MS1 to work well at all near stock RPM. I am going to the MS3 very shortly which was part of my plan. btw - car is off to the brother so I only get to hear about how much fun it is now days. Drove it around the smoky mountains for a few days. what a blast.
Justaturbo95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2012, 03:39 PM   #40
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justaturbo95 View Post
I pulled only the tranny. Car is pretty much set up so only the clutch remained to be done.
Any difficulty getting the transmission into the splines of both plates?

I had to pull my motor
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 59 12-15-2017 09:00 PM
15x10 - 15x11 6UL @ 949 Racing emilio700 Wheels and Tires 151 06-02-2017 03:36 PM
ACT race clutch and AASCO 7lb. aluminum flywheel graexodus Miata parts for sale/trade 5 10-26-2015 02:48 PM
Are my coils failing? viriiguy General Miata Chat 5 09-28-2015 08:39 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:51 PM.