Front sway bar suggestion
02-15-2009, 07:59 PM
#1
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SF/Bay Area
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Front sway bar suggestion
I am undecided on a front sway bar:
Option 1: Racing beat front sway bar with stock endlinks or
Option 2: NB oem front sway bar with mazdaspeed endlinks
This will be on NB bilstein HD w/ ground control and stock rear sway bar.
Any suggestions?
Option 1: Racing beat front sway bar with stock endlinks or
Option 2: NB oem front sway bar with mazdaspeed endlinks
This will be on NB bilstein HD w/ ground control and stock rear sway bar.
Any suggestions?
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02-15-2009, 08:56 PM
#2
Boost Pope
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Swaybars are a fine-tuning instrument. How is the car handling presently? Understeerey? Oversteerey? Forgot about body roll for the moment, what is the car's disposition in a turn?
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02-15-2009, 08:59 PM
#4
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not to mention what your goals and intended use for the car is to be.
nb links are a known weak point. are you looking to change the car's dynamics or make it more reliable?
nb links are a known weak point. are you looking to change the car's dynamics or make it more reliable?
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02-15-2009, 10:49 PM
#5
Are you on all stock sways right now?
What are you going to do with the car? Auto-x, drift, track, weekend fun car, etc?
What is the handling balance like right now?
I suggest you try this helpful little calculator from FatCatMotorports:
FCM_MSDS_1_8NB.xls
You can enter in the values to find your baseline roll couple with your current setup. If you like the way your car feels now, you can try to maintain your target roll couple. If you want a little bit more oversteer, you can try raising your rear ride height ~.25" increments, given you're not too low and engaging the jounce bumpers a lot.
If you get the Mazdaspeed competition adjustable end links, you'll probably get noticeably better steering response, very slightly rougher ride over bumpy roads, very slightly more understeer and very slightly less body roll.
If you go with the RB tubular front bar, it will probably be a pretty good Auto-x setup, with noticeably better steering response, less body roll, more planted under power, but somewhat more understeery at steady state. Ride will probably suffer a slight amount over rough roads. The only thing is the tubular bar is pretty stiff, and there's stories floating around about NB's ripping out lower A-arm mounts, sway bar brackets and end links in spirited driving.
What are you going to do with the car? Auto-x, drift, track, weekend fun car, etc?
What is the handling balance like right now?
I suggest you try this helpful little calculator from FatCatMotorports:
FCM_MSDS_1_8NB.xls
You can enter in the values to find your baseline roll couple with your current setup. If you like the way your car feels now, you can try to maintain your target roll couple. If you want a little bit more oversteer, you can try raising your rear ride height ~.25" increments, given you're not too low and engaging the jounce bumpers a lot.
If you get the Mazdaspeed competition adjustable end links, you'll probably get noticeably better steering response, very slightly rougher ride over bumpy roads, very slightly more understeer and very slightly less body roll.
If you go with the RB tubular front bar, it will probably be a pretty good Auto-x setup, with noticeably better steering response, less body roll, more planted under power, but somewhat more understeery at steady state. Ride will probably suffer a slight amount over rough roads. The only thing is the tubular bar is pretty stiff, and there's stories floating around about NB's ripping out lower A-arm mounts, sway bar brackets and end links in spirited driving.
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02-15-2009, 11:37 PM
#8
Endlinks:
I installed heim joint end links on my car, and the steering response improved. Not nearly as much as putting a thick sway bar in, but still noticeable. Theres no waiting for the rubber bushings in the stock endlinks to load up before the bar comes into play.
Jounce Bumpers:
If the OP has his coilovers set up such that rears are too low, they will engage the rear jounce bumpers, effectively increasing his rear spring rates and cause oversteer, at which point raising the rear ride height will reduce oversteer. If his suspension isn't too low, then raising the rear ride height will also raise his rear roll center, making his roll couple distribution more rear biased for more oversteer.
I installed heim joint end links on my car, and the steering response improved. Not nearly as much as putting a thick sway bar in, but still noticeable. Theres no waiting for the rubber bushings in the stock endlinks to load up before the bar comes into play.
Jounce Bumpers:
If the OP has his coilovers set up such that rears are too low, they will engage the rear jounce bumpers, effectively increasing his rear spring rates and cause oversteer, at which point raising the rear ride height will reduce oversteer. If his suspension isn't too low, then raising the rear ride height will also raise his rear roll center, making his roll couple distribution more rear biased for more oversteer.
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02-16-2009, 09:15 AM
#12
Tour de Franzia
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
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Endlinks:
I installed heim joint end links on my car, and the steering response improved. Not nearly as much as putting a thick sway bar in, but still noticeable. Theres no waiting for the rubber bushings in the stock endlinks to load up before the bar comes into play.
Jounce Bumpers:
If the OP has his coilovers set up such that rears are too low, they will engage the rear jounce bumpers, effectively increasing his rear spring rates and cause oversteer, at which point raising the rear ride height will reduce oversteer. If his suspension isn't too low, then raising the rear ride height will also raise his rear roll center, making his roll couple distribution more rear biased for more oversteer.
I installed heim joint end links on my car, and the steering response improved. Not nearly as much as putting a thick sway bar in, but still noticeable. Theres no waiting for the rubber bushings in the stock endlinks to load up before the bar comes into play.
Jounce Bumpers:
If the OP has his coilovers set up such that rears are too low, they will engage the rear jounce bumpers, effectively increasing his rear spring rates and cause oversteer, at which point raising the rear ride height will reduce oversteer. If his suspension isn't too low, then raising the rear ride height will also raise his rear roll center, making his roll couple distribution more rear biased for more oversteer.
Being close to the ones you love is one of the greatest feelings in the world. A healthy sexual relationship between two consenting people is one of the greatest ways to become very close. Two bodies, together, intimately, is such a great feeling. Two souls becoming one. That is true love. There should be no age limit to love. A father and a mother's souls should become one with their children's. That's love. That's protection. That's right.
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02-16-2009, 09:27 AM
#13
Do you HONESTLY think it's wrong to make love to children?
Being close to the ones you love is one of the greatest feelings in the world. A healthy sexual relationship between two consenting people is one of the greatest ways to become very close. Two bodies, together, intimately, is such a great feeling. Two souls becoming one. That is true love. There should be no age limit to love. A father and a mother's souls should become one with their children's. That's love. That's protection. That's right.
Being close to the ones you love is one of the greatest feelings in the world. A healthy sexual relationship between two consenting people is one of the greatest ways to become very close. Two bodies, together, intimately, is such a great feeling. Two souls becoming one. That is true love. There should be no age limit to love. A father and a mother's souls should become one with their children's. That's love. That's protection. That's right.
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02-16-2009, 03:23 PM
#15
Newb
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Miami, FL
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Do you HONESTLY think it's wrong to make love to children?
Being close to the ones you love is one of the greatest feelings in the world. A healthy sexual relationship between two consenting people is one of the greatest ways to become very close. Two bodies, together, intimately, is such a great feeling. Two souls becoming one. That is true love. There should be no age limit to love. A father and a mother's souls should become one with their children's. That's love. That's protection. That's right.
Being close to the ones you love is one of the greatest feelings in the world. A healthy sexual relationship between two consenting people is one of the greatest ways to become very close. Two bodies, together, intimately, is such a great feeling. Two souls becoming one. That is true love. There should be no age limit to love. A father and a mother's souls should become one with their children's. That's love. That's protection. That's right.
Must have forgotten which forum he was on...
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02-16-2009, 07:15 PM
#17
Do you HONESTLY think it's wrong to make love to children?
Being close to the ones you love is one of the greatest feelings in the world. A healthy sexual relationship between two consenting people is one of the greatest ways to become very close. Two bodies, together, intimately, is such a great feeling. Two souls becoming one. That is true love. There should be no age limit to love. A father and a mother's souls should become one with their children's. That's love. That's protection. That's right.
Being close to the ones you love is one of the greatest feelings in the world. A healthy sexual relationship between two consenting people is one of the greatest ways to become very close. Two bodies, together, intimately, is such a great feeling. Two souls becoming one. That is true love. There should be no age limit to love. A father and a mother's souls should become one with their children's. That's love. That's protection. That's right.
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