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NB sub-frame in NA

 
Old 09-04-2018, 12:38 AM
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Well this is all good info. Recently swapped to an NB subframe/rack on my NA with non-LE rod ends. Looks like I won't be changing to LE and will be keeping an eye out for NB knuckles.

As for the rack, I did use the NB u-joint with the NA shaft. If it's too long, slide it back into the column, it's a safety feature with ~6" of play...

FWIW I also mated the entire NB power steering setup onto my NA, only changing the reservoir. I did opt to run an aftermarket cooler with soft lines to the reservoir/rack however.
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Old 09-04-2018, 12:44 AM
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^Thanks Curly, I'll try that tomorrow. BTW, next time I'm in Oregon (is where a month ago I bought the car that's getting this subframe), I'll buy you a cold one!
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by curly View Post
Well this is all good info. Recently swapped to an NB subframe/rack on my NA with non-LE rod ends. Looks like I won't be changing to LE and will be keeping an eye out for NB knuckles.
How are you guys buying these sub frames? When I bought mine it was complete with control arms, rack and knuckles. I just bolted it to the body, engine and steering shaft. I then added the LE tie rods later.

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Old 09-12-2018, 08:42 PM
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It's painfully pedantic, but the NA and NB arms interchange and the NA arms have the double-shear endlink mounts. Not a big deal on most cars, but when you've got a 1-1/4" bar with a 3/16" wall thickness in the car, the swaybar system needs all the help it can get.

The ideal setup is an NB subframe, NB rack, NB FUCAs, NB spindles, and NA lower arms, Bauer ELBJs, and 93LE tie rod ends.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:54 PM
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While the NA is double shear the material is a lot thinner than the NB single. I added the Racing Beat tab to the NB to make it double shear. It seemed like the best idea with that monster front bar. Otherwise I agree with and copied your formula. :-)
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by k24madness View Post
While the NA is double shear the material is a lot thinner than the NB single. I added the Racing Beat tab to the NB to make it double shear. It seemed like the best idea with that monster front bar. Otherwise I agree with and copied your formula. :-)
IIRC supposedly there was also more reinforcement in the NB arms under the tabs too.
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
NB FUCAs
NB1 FUCAS
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by k24madness View Post
How are you guys buying these sub frames? When I bought mine it was complete with control arms, rack and knuckles. I just bolted it to the body, engine and steering shaft. I then added the LE tie rods later.
Parted out a car, so I only took what I needed Long story: My car is getting less and less track orientated (have a fully caged car for that) and I wanted comfort, aka PS. I don't have/want ABS, so I sold the ABS NB hubs. Since you need to keep NA subframes with NA racks and NB subframes with NB racks, I took the opportunity to upgrade to the "better" suspension geometry. Installed all my NA hubs and arms with NB subframe, rack, tie rods, and I think some barely used MSM outer tie rods, and voila, power steering.

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Old 09-12-2018, 10:49 PM
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Curly a big part of the suspension geometry improvements (bumpsteer) is in the knuckles. I don’t understand the logic of not keeping those with the new NB sub frame.
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:58 AM
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Good to know, I'll try to source some NB knuckles. I was parting out with a friend, and we had a buyer for all the ABS knuckles/hardware.
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Old 09-17-2018, 01:43 PM
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+1. The spindles are half the benefit and like 5% of the work. Makes no sense to run an NB subframe and NA spindles.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
NB lower U-joint will fit the NA shaft. That's what I have done on all the NB>NA swaps I've done.
Confirmed, and done!


Quick Q? Right now I have the NB power steering reservoir, and it fits rather wonky. Would the NA reservoir (I have one) would fit unto the NB rack hoses?
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Old 10-12-2018, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by The Driver View Post
Confirmed, and done!


Quick Q? Right now I have the NB power steering reservoir, and it fits rather wonky. Would the NA reservoir (I have one) would fit unto the NB rack hoses?
I used the NA reservoir. I think the smaller line that comes out of the back of it, I the NA hose didn't see to fit quite right, so I just used some bulk hose. The larger hose I don't recall if I used the NA or NB, but it was an OE hose.
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Old 10-12-2018, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinspann View Post
I used the NA reservoir. I think the smaller line that comes out of the back of it, I the NA hose didn't see to fit quite right, so I just used some bulk hose. The larger hose I don't recall if I used the NA or NB, but it was an OE hose.
Thanks dude!
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Old 12-04-2018, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
The ideal setup is an NB subframe, NB rack, NB FUCAs, NB spindles, and NA lower arms, Bauer ELBJs, and 93LE tie rod ends.
Sorry to thread jack, but we're parting out another 2003. Just so i'm clear, I want to grab the front knuckles and upper arms? How horrible would it be if I kept my non '93LE outer tie rods? Also it's 90% a street car, so do I strictly need the ELBJ? Don't get me wrong, I'm club orange and am happy to grab Emilio's new front end service kit, but I also don't know if I necessarily need near 4* on the street.
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Old 12-05-2018, 10:41 AM
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Curly, keep the NB tie rods that came with the 03 subframe. Skip the ELBJ if you can meet camber targets without it. Most likely you’ll be good without for a street/track car. The upper CA and knuckles would be all you need to balance off your previous NB subframe install.
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:30 AM
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Does anyone know how to visually (or otherwise) differentiate between NA and NB front upper arms?

I have a set that I plan to use to facilitate a bushing swap, but when I obtained them I didn't realize there was a difference in the upper arms, and I don't know for sure whether they came off an NA or NB...
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:44 AM
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I think nb2 arms have an additional brace welded to the bottom, there’s a thread floating around here about interference with coil overs with them at certain camber numbers.
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by curly View Post
I think nb2 arms have an additional brace welded to the bottom, there’s a thread floating around here about interference with coil overs with them at certain camber numbers.
Thank you! That was the nugget I needed for a useful search result.

Found this:


Which I think answers my question... just have a little more research to do to confirm NB1 v. NA, and I think the answer is still in the underside bracing.

EDIT: OK, I believe the FUCAs I have are NA... It appears the underside bracing was extended from NA to NB1, and again from NB1 to NB2. If anyone has any different info, please speak up.


Last edited by Roda; 12-05-2018 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:52 PM
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It doesn't matter since you don't have the ball joint anyway. The big problem is the NB upper ball joint taper is different, so you have to match the knuckle and ball joint (which most people.never change out if the arm).
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