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NB sub-frame in NA

 
Old 12-05-2018, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by x_25 View Post
It doesn't matter since you don't have the ball joint anyway. The big problem is the NB upper ball joint taper is different, so you have to match the knuckle and ball joint (which most people.never change out if the arm).
Not anymore.

https://supermiata.com/SuperMiata-Upper-Ball-Joint.aspx

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Old 12-05-2018, 04:33 PM
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I was mostly trying to determine for posterity, as most salvage outlets list them indiscriminately.

And I already have a set of the SPM ball joints ready to mount.
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Old 12-06-2018, 03:14 PM
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I need to order a set of those ball joint still... Already have the lowers I still need to install. Somehow all my bushings and ball joints are still in good shape on my 160k mile 90 that has seen 5 seasons of autocross and a hand full of track days and I am not sure why they have held up as opposed to every other miata I know...

Supermiata really needs to stop making all these amazing products and taking so much of my money...
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Old 12-10-2018, 05:55 PM
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Excuse me if Im overlooking the answer, but I have a question about a specific setup Im working on.

Basically, 93 chassis with a 99 donor car. I would like to put the NB subframe and steering rack in the NA to help with bump steer and also add power steering back to the car. The NA has ABS but the NB does not, and from what I saw the non-ABS NB knuckles do no have provisions for ABS. Other than finding ABS NB knuckles, what would be the best configuration?

NB subframe and steering rack with NA knuckles. Full NA control arms? or can I use the NB lowers?
Also, which tie rods should I use? Are the 93LE still the go-to, or would they make the bump steer worse in this situation?

Thanks for the spoon feeding in advance

EDIT:
Did some more reading. Looks like Im doing the same thing as Curly.
NB subframe
NB rack
NA UCA and LCA
NA knuckles

So the only real question I have now is which tie rods? unless someone knows how to retrofit ABS to non-ABS NB knuckles.
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Old 12-10-2018, 06:02 PM
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Find NB ABS knuckles.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 12-10-2018, 10:20 PM
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What if its a street car and you want to spend $0?
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
What if its a street car and you want to spend $0?
Steal some NB ABS spindles.

The post you missed, in this thread, that answers your question:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
You will want NB knuckles as well. Bump steer is crazy with NA knuckles on an NB sub frame. Yes the knuckles are different. I think the best setup is all NB front end with LE tie rod ends for an aggressively lowered car.
It's a dumb waste of time to swap the subframe and keep the NA spindles. Sell the NB subframe you have, use the money to buy a good NA PS rack, and install it. Alternatively, sell the NA ABS spindles, since they are rare as hen's teeth and thus worth a fortune, and use that money to buy some NB ABS spindles.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:09 AM
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Sound logic. Thanks for the help
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:28 AM
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I did this swap and love the changes in the handling characteristics from my NA setup. You will want to get the 93LE/R outer tie rod ends to help with bumpsteer as well.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Der_Idiot View Post
You will want to get the 93LE/R outer tie rod ends to help with bumpsteer as well.
I do not recall if it is in this thread, or one of the many that I've read; but the NB outer tie-rod ends (currently) being offered should be the same as the 93 R package. Supermiata's description on their outers: " Geometry is 94-95 "R" package / NB. Reduces bump steer on NA chassis ". To help open up your search for replacements.

Josh (no affiliation with SM).
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Old 12-11-2018, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Fosters View Post
I do not recall if it is in this thread, or one of the many that I've read; but the NB outer tie-rod ends (currently) being offered should be the same as the 93 R package. Supermiata's description on their outers: " Geometry is 94-95 "R" package / NB. Reduces bump steer on NA chassis ". To help open up your search for replacements.

Josh (no affiliation with SM).
In the other thread, it was pretty well determined that the listing is/was wrong.

There are R/LE tie rods, and then not-R/LE tie rods. NB doesn't even need to enter the discussion.
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Old 12-11-2018, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Fosters View Post
I do not recall if it is in this thread, or one of the many that I've read; but the NB outer tie-rod ends (currently) being offered should be the same as the 93 R package. Supermiata's description on their outers: " Geometry is 94-95 "R" package / NB. Reduces bump steer on NA chassis ". To help open up your search for replacements.

Josh (no affiliation with SM).
This is not accurate. The part numbers for normal NA and NB tie rod ends are the same from Mazda (NA01-32-280). The part number for LE/R-package tie rod ends is different (N021-32-280A).
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Old 12-11-2018, 05:26 PM
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Does it matter if the NB spindles are ABS or not? Or is it just whatever i can find for a reasonable price.

Last edited by matrussell122; 12-11-2018 at 05:37 PM. Reason: meant spindle not hub
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Old 12-11-2018, 05:37 PM
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Geometry does not vary with ABS, no. Any NB knuckle will work.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:42 AM
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More of a general question, but is the time taken to do this generally seen as "worth while"?

I.E any opinions or demonstrable data to say it will affect lap times.
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Old 12-13-2018, 01:35 PM
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The two big benefits, in theory, are the additional camber gain and the bumpsteer correction. The camber is a big deal because it allows you to run less static camber, which improves braking performance and tire wear characteristics. The bumpsteer correction reduces driver fatigue and keep the chassis planted through bumpy corners. (The improved steering rack mounts are a smaller side benefit)

As far as demonstrable data, that's probably going to be hard to find. A-B data would be non-existent since most people swapping the subframe are also tweaking other things at the same time. IMO, it's a small, incremental improvement, the kind of thing that you know is better based on the theory without having to precisely quantify that improvement.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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