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Old 05-25-2014, 08:37 PM   #1
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Default New FM clutch, doesn't want to stay disengaged.

Okay, so, I had a shop install an FM clutch and flywheel for me, because I didn't want to do it. It was a used set I got from FRT_Fun with 3500 miles just in case used is relevant to my problem.

Well, I got the thing back from the shop and the guy says he didn't think the slave on the car was meant to operate this clutch and that he had to shim the actuator to get it working, but that it was all fine now. I'm not sure what to make of this, but I get the car and sure enough it seems to be working fine on the ride home. Except, I take it out today to test it out fully and suddenly it won't go into gear, the clutch is all the way down, but it is complaining about shifting to second or for that matter any gear.

So, if I pump the pedal it goes in. So, I figure, it might be the slave. I had replaced the slave relatively recently (three years ago?) and there weren't a lot of miles on it, but I figured for $20 at Autozone it might be a quick fix. Looking back now it seems kinda dumb to think that, but watching the slave slowly retract while the pedal was still fully pressed made me think maybe.

Nope, still same issue. So, it must be the master at this point? Unless I'm missing something? Once the car is in gear everything works fine. I'm assuming this just sort of made itself known now that the clutch needs more pressure to stay disengaged?
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Old 05-25-2014, 08:54 PM   #2
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Was the clutch ever adjusted for the clutch?
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Old 05-25-2014, 09:23 PM   #3
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Right, did they follow the FM instructions for adjusting the clutch pedal?
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Old 05-25-2014, 09:50 PM   #4
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I did not give him those exact instructions as I was unaware of them. I am looking at them now. I think he did some of these adjustments, at the very least the clutch rod under the dash, as he did state that the car was not really driveable when he got done installing the thing. Like I said, when I got it the car was working fine.

Here's the thing though, if I'm at idle with the car running and push the clutch pedal in I can get it into every gear, but if I leave the pedal down and keep shifting gears soon (like within a few seconds) I can't pull it out of gear or put it into gear as if I'm slowly letting up on the clutch.

It sounds like the FM instructions don't really cover this scenario and if the free play adjustment was the issue I wouldn't be able to put the thing into gear at all? Or is this still a free play issue and I am just right on the edge where pumping it a little will give it enough pressure to get into gear, but then as the pressure goes down it stops going into gear? It just seems like in a closed system the pressure shouldn't go down.
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Old 05-25-2014, 10:06 PM   #5
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Well, no point in arguing until you go adjust it. Go to the garage with a 12 and 10mm wrench then get back to us.
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Old 05-25-2014, 10:08 PM   #6
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For the record this clutch worked perfect for me. I vote installation error. Make sure clutch is adjusted per FM, and your slave is properly bled. The fact that the shop said the slave "wasn't meant to operate this clutch" means you aren't working with the brightest. Baby step them through it and watch them do it. Could be any number of things though, the FM clutch is pretty light, but if any part of your clutch hydraulic system was taking a ****, a heavier clutch will accelerate that.
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Old 05-25-2014, 10:22 PM   #7
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Sounds like if you're getting it into gear while holding the clutch pedal down at first, and then it starts getting stuck that you're losing hydraulic pressure.

I agree that the new parts could mean something has had an accelerated failure. If you have a new slave installed, and you can't see the fluid, I'd think the master cylinder was leaking to the inside of the firewall. Have someone hold down the clutch pedal while you watch the throw out arm. If it starts retracting on it's own it's almost certainly a leak.
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Old 05-25-2014, 10:33 PM   #8
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It sounds like you've got a leak in the hydraulic system. Check the floor near the clutch pedal for fluid, and check all the connections for fluid leading up to the slave. Double check the slave even though you've replaced it already, they are a fairly common failure point. Did you have any issue before you changed the clutch? If you didn't have any issues before my guess would be the shop didn't tighten the line that runs along the firewall that connects the to "Curly Q" line.
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Old 05-25-2014, 10:50 PM   #9
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Okay, I did the FM adjustments and that didn't help, the issue with the clutch starting to re-engage when the pedal is held completely down still happens so I'm going to go with something is not right. The car goes into gear, the clutch just doesn't stay engaged with the pedal down. I'm 99.9% certain the slave is not a problem as I replaced it and bled it, so I'm going to probably swap out the master at this point because the cheapo one from Advance is $22 and the car has 210k miles on it some of it very hard driving autocross and I'm not sure when the master was ever swapped.

I'm pretty sure there was some issue before the clutch got swapped. At one point the car got pretty hot and clutch takeup suddenly became very abrupt as if the clutch was engaging much sooner. I think it went back to normal soon after and I forgot about it until now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkythesharkdogg
Have someone hold down the clutch pedal while you watch the throw out arm. If it starts retracting on it's own it's almost certainly a leak.
This is what I had my FIL doing today and that was what was happening both with the old and new slave even after multiple bleeds. The arm would retract even with the pedal down.

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Originally Posted by FRT_Fun
For the record this clutch worked perfect for me. I vote installation error.
Definitely not calling the clutch itself into question at this point, sorry if it seemed that way. It was a good deal.
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Old 05-25-2014, 10:53 PM   #10
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Read FMs instructions. The clutch pedal rod MUST be adjusted. I just bought an Fm1 and did lots of forum searching before hand.
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Old 05-25-2014, 10:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gt2560rMiata View Post
Read FMs instructions. The clutch pedal rod MUST be adjusted. I just bought an Fm1 and did lots of forum searching before hand.
Read thread, reply with less duplicate information.
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Old 05-26-2014, 08:10 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harv View Post
The arm would retract even with the pedal down.
Clearly hydraulics. Rebuild or swap the master, and bleed the hell out of it. Wouldn't hurt to pull the slave and check it as well.
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Old 05-26-2014, 01:46 PM   #13
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I ran into this exact same issue when installing an FM1 clutch. Replaced master and salve cylinder and everything was perfect.
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Old 05-27-2014, 06:59 PM   #14
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Okay, so the clutch master was the problem, but yes, you do need to undo the 17mm bolt and unscrew the switch as well as lengthen the rod by undoing the 12mm bolt, but my real problem was the pressure wasn't being held.

I haven't even had a chance to bleed it and it already works fine. When I have an extra foot to press the pedal I'll get the system bled out.

Last edited by Harv; 05-27-2014 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 05-28-2014, 11:08 AM   #15
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What switch are you talking about with the 17mm? Neutral safety switch?
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Old 05-28-2014, 11:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
What switch are you talking about with the 17mm? Neutral safety switch?
It must be some sort of neutral switch, though I'm not sure on the 90. If you get under the dash there is the rod going into the clutch master and then the pedal arm and then if you keep going along that line towards the back of the car there is a 17mm bolt holding another rod in place with a switch behind it. You can undo the 17mm bolt and then twist the switch around behind it to give more throw to the clutch pedal. Then you just tighten the 17mm and you're all good.

This is all laid out in the FM clutch installation tips.

https://www.flyinmiata.com/support/i...isc/Clutch.pdf
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Old 05-29-2014, 12:13 AM   #17
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Hrmm... more throw towards the floor would be ok, but more up would be *****.

My problem is that by the time I get the clutch to fully disengage, it wants to slip up top. Keep it from slipping, clutch doesn't completely disengage.

It's like I have a mile of grey area between engage and disengage. Super annoying. All new hydraulics.
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Old 05-29-2014, 01:00 AM   #18
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Those FM instructions make me feel inadequate. I'll have to do that if my 949 disc ever comes in.
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Old 05-29-2014, 12:26 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Those FM instructions make me feel inadequate. I'll have to do that if my 949 disc ever comes in.
Yeahh, keep waiting lol thats why I went with the FM1 im impatient and cant wait months for a clutch
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Old 05-29-2014, 07:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
Hrmm... more throw towards the floor would be ok, but more up would be *****.

My problem is that by the time I get the clutch to fully disengage, it wants to slip up top. Keep it from slipping, clutch doesn't completely disengage.

It's like I have a mile of grey area between engage and disengage. Super annoying. All new hydraulics.
Hm. Between the two rod adjustments you should be able to get something usable I would think.

My admittedly quick test drive after putting in the master and adjusting the rods was overall successful. It starts to grab fairly low compared to how it used to work, but it's not too bad. I do have both the clutch and light weight flywheel from FM.
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