DeerHunter

Makes sense. At the very least, it should be quieter than the Quaife, which is noisy on decel, accel and anywhere in-between. I'll put in my $0.02 when I have I have some seat time with it.

icantlearn

what about that quaife tho.....?

DeerHunter

Rhetorical question? If an actual question, either PM me or reply to my For Sale thread so as not to clutter up this one.

VanMSM

I drove my car again today and should clarify that the NVH buzzing on decel varies with rpm and gear. In my driving it was primarily there in lower gears when between 2800 and 3500 rpm. Note that I have 3.63 gears. It propagates the tranny noise quite effectively but luckily that varies. I didn't find it too objectionable when cruising on the highway.

DeerHunter

Thanks for the update.

DeerHunter

Clutch should arrive tomorrow and will be installed on Thursday. Any particular break-in procedure?

icantlearn

just do what the box tells you to do

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

None for puck disc. For the hybrid disc, just drive it easy for a day or two. Nothing special.

DeerHunter

Sounds good - thank Emilio.

DeerHunter

Well, thanks to typical UPS buffoonery, my package didn't arrive until after lunchtime yesterday, so the installation was set back a tad. Picked up the car this evening. First impressions:

• There is some assembly required (not really made apparent in the on-line description and the Supermiata web site doesn't host any down-loadable installation instructions). There's also a whole thing about fabricating a clutch stop on the floorboards that I decided to ignore (after discussions with Savington). Perhaps Emilio could weigh in on the precise requirement for a Miata install (vs. the Competition Clutch generic installation guide).
• Yes, the clutch is heavier. Probably about the same difference between it and the FMII as between the FMII and stock. Not as bad as the ACT clutch I had a long time ago and, as long as my knee holds up, I should be fine.
• It's a little (okay, a lot) more binary than the FMII. I chirped the tires leaving the parking lot when I picked the car up. It might be improving with some break-in miles, or I might just be getting used to it. Will update again.
• Per VanMSM, it is noisier than stock between 3K and 4K (it actually does sound like the exhaust is rattling on something). It's not nearly as bothersome as I feared, however. In fact, compared to the Quaife gearset, it's almost soothing.

The MSM 6-speed shifts nicely with the MiataRoadster short-shift kit (with the standard-height shifter, gate spacing is very tight but ultra-precise). It's no 5-speed, I must say. Anyway, my car is back on the road again, which pleases me muchly. Not much time left before the snow starts to fly again in these parts, alas.

DeerHunter

I've been driving the car for more than a week now, so it's probably time for an update. After my discussion with Savington while the clutch was being installed, and after I got it home, I did some "under the dash" adjustments - removing the free play in the pedal using the threaded clutch switch and then adjusting the pushrod appropriately (using the FM-recommended method of making the rod as long as possible, while checking to ensure you can push in the slave cylinder with your finger). To be honest, I wasn't in love with how it drove. It caught very close to the carpet and was very binary. Any attempt to slip it resulted in extreme chatter. Per Emilio's advice above, I took it easy for a couple of days and then started driving normally (which, given it's daily-driver status, is actually quite normal). It didn't really improve that much and any perceived improvements were probably due to me getting used to how it drove. Furthermore, even downshifting was less smooth than I would have liked, with gear changes feeling a little gritty. All in all, the car wasn't terribly fun to drive anymore, with none of the joie de vivre that I usually feel running through the gears. If I would have to guess, I'd say that the clutch was dragging ever so slightly upon downshifts (which manifested as crunchy shifts). There was no creep when stopped and in gear, so it wasn't grossly out of whack.

Having put a few miles on the clutch, I decided yesterday to put it back on ramps and perform another clutch pushrod adjustment. This time, after finding the upper limit (where you can't manually depress the slave anymore), I backed the rod out about a turn-and-a-half. A quick drive around the block revealed that the pedal was now catching a little ways off the floor, which is a step in the right direction. Today I had a slightly longer drive and I also notice that I can actually slip the clutch when starting out now. The chatter is almost completely gone and, while still more grabby than a less race-biased unit, it's now definitely tolerable in a street-driven car.

I know, I know, why am I complaining about a clutch that is patently not for the average driver. I chose the Twin Disc because the lower Supermiata offerings didn't look like they would reliably hold the torque I produce on a good day, I didn't want to do another FM Level 2 since the one I had failed catastrophically, and I've never really like the feel of other brands (such as ACT). My fond hope was this would be the last clutch I'd have to put in the car but, frankly, I was seriously re-evaluating that decision until the sun broke through the clouds yesterday. Yes, the Twin Disc is noisier but at least it drives with some semblance of civility - as long as you set up the clutch pushrod length properly. Pending further seat time, I pronounce myself now wholly satisfied.

DeerHunter

One last update, now that my car has been put away for the winter. The clutch continued to break in as miles accumulated, and I had to tweak the clutch pushrod length a couple more times. The good news is that it drives more like a normal clutch now, with the ability to slip it if you're paying attention (although you need more revs than normal when starting out, and there's still a little bit of unavoidable judder). It's still the tiniest bit grabby if you let it out too quickly, so it requires more mental effort to drive in traffic than the FM Level 2. The bad news is that it took approximately 1,000-1,200 miles of street driving to get to this point. That's not the end of the world, of course, but certainly a good thing to know at the outset so expectations can be appropriately set.

One things that I like is that, even if it grabs, it's actually quite difficult to stall. The heavier flywheel works exactly as advertised in this respect. Engagement is just under the half-way point now, which eases street driving even more. Pedal effort is no worse than I remember for the FM unit, so that is a complete non-issue. Overall, post break-in, I'm much happier with the clutch and enjoyed driving my car again.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

And it holds over 400 ft lbs..

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

Twin with Street flywheel can be started like OEM, just a heavier pedal. If your idle quality is good, you can get the car rolling without touching the throttle. The test we did was to put the car in reverse and back up a slight incline from a stand still, without touching the throttle.
Race flywheel require more slipping to get moving without stalling, because race clutch.

DeerHunter

From my experience, with the street flywheel, there are two ways to take off smoothly. The first is to pretty much engage the clutch at idle (per Emilio's post above), which is smooth(-ish) but not very satisfying and risks you being rear-ended by the over-eager idiot behind you at the light. The second is to use more revs than a regular street clutch (say, about 2,000 rpm when breaking in and about 1,500-1,700 as it settles in). Anything in-between risks either excessive chatter or stalling (either of which makes you look like an MT novice). This tendency abates with break-in miles and I'm hoping that with even more miles, required engagement revs will keep lowering. Also, use Emilio's recommended technique of pivoting your clutch foot on the floorboard, as it allows a much smoother engagement. Maybe my clutch is an outlier, but I don't think my issue is due to lack of practice, given 30+ years experience with a manual transmission.

DeerHunter

Final update now that my L.E. is with a new owner: I can safely state that the twin clutch keeps getting better with more miles. Even in the short month I've been driving it this spring, engagement has become more progressive and natural. It still takes more awareness than required for a traditional sprung clutch but it's actually quite livable in stop 'n' go traffic now. I suspect it will improve further as the summer wears on. Thumbs up!

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

And it holds 500whp

90LowNSlo

I never understood people complaining about pedal feel... Am I the only one that floats 90% of their gear changes?

icantlearn

I can also say that this clutch isn't bad to drive on the street at all. I have been braking in my built motor with this clutch on the street and can say its really not bad at all. Everything that Deer Hunter has said is accurate. Stop and go traffic isn't pleasant, but you won't stall the car every time you move your foot half a centimeter. You have to be a little quicker between shifts, as the rpms drop fast. But anyone who has driven a car with a light flywheel will know this and its easy to get used to if you haven't. The biggest annoyance was getting it installed. Overall tho, Im happy with it.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

Street flywheel George?