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Old 10-08-2009, 03:36 PM   #1
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Default Is this normal camber wear or something else?

I run Emilio's alignment settings for 12-13" cars. It's not all that radical with 2.0 camber front and 1.8 rear and 0 toe f/r. I know it's not "tire friendly" according to him. I'm just curious, not having a lowered car before, if the wear on my tires is normal for these settings or is something else wrong?

The tire wear is completely even and flat across all four tires except for 2" on the inside of all four. That two inches is a distinct angle from the rest of the tire. Well above wear bars everywhere else. Bald as hell on the inside. 90% of the miles I put on my street tires are freeway.

Normal camber wear I should expect with those settings? something else be doing this? Worn bushings allowing too much movement? Too much free play in the steering rack? etc.

Before I put on new tires I was hoping to know if this is normal wear at these alignment settings or if I needed to fix something first.

Set up is stock 94 bushings, bearings, ball joints, tie rods and end links with 120K miles plus rb hollow, Tein RA's, 11.5" f/ 11.75" R, Fatcat hats, 8" 6ul's with 225/45 rs2's.

Is this normal camber wear or something else?-camber-wear.jpg
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:39 PM   #2
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Probably a combo of the outside tire lifting (wearing inside) and inside tire squatting (adding more camber thus inside wear).

you might benefit from taking tire temps when you get off the track?
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:43 PM   #3
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He's usually running ra1s on track with a set of kosei racing wheels. This wear is all street (I'm assuming).
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:43 PM   #4
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I'm running similar camber and i'm closer to the wear bars on my rs2s and have dead even wear across all tires. I also have quite a bit of toe.
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:38 PM   #5
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Curly is right. The RS2's are street only. I run R-comps at the track. I also see a similar wear pattern showing up on them.

I posted this up since the camber I'm running isn't that extreme. I'm guessing there's movement somewhere effectively allowing a bunch of toe in or out to happen when driving. I don't know if this is in the front or back as the tires get swapped around all the time for track days. Nothing is obvious when the car is on the alignment rack either. The car IS very twitchy when changing lanes on rutted blacktop freeways.

I guess I should say I drive the car like a pissed off teenager but only have a couple of turns between work and home. 98% of the drive is dead straight freeway.
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Old 10-08-2009, 05:15 PM   #6
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Is it perhaps time for new alignment bolts?
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Old 10-08-2009, 05:22 PM   #7
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I've actually got a ton of suspension parts waiting to go in. I was hoping someone might be able to narrow the cause down so I don't tear everything apart, replace a bunch of parts but miss the culprit and have to do it all over again.
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Old 10-08-2009, 05:29 PM   #8
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Well it sounds to me as if your alignment isn't holding, pretty much as you suspected. I've read a lot on M.net that after you get an alignment you should drive home slowly/carefully and torque all your alignment bolts down to some ridiculous level like 150ft/lbs or something.
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Old 10-08-2009, 05:30 PM   #9
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I had nasty wear like that once that was a result of toe-out rather than camber, if that's worth anything. Temps across the tire are your best bet for dialing in the alignment, though.
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Old 10-08-2009, 05:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_man View Post
I had nasty wear like that once that was a result of toe-out rather than camber, if that's worth anything. Temps across the tire are your best bet for dialing in the alignment, though.
+1 on the toe. We just had a truck that had a similar issue. Do you trust the rack & operator? Maybe go to another shop to see if the toe is in range.

You should be able to check for tie rod and ball joint wear easily enough by attempting to rock the wheels back and forth and side to side. I would assume your pressures are ok? Harder to check the bushings, but do you get squeaks or thuds when suspension is in motion?
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Old 10-08-2009, 05:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
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I had nasty wear like that once that was a result of toe-out rather than camber, if that's worth anything. Temps across the tire are your best bet for dialing in the alignment, though.
I'm guessing toe myself for that wear. I figure somethings gotta be moving/flexing/shifting under the stress of driving that isn't showing up on the alignment rack. Hoping someone knew what parts could contribute to that. Can worn alignment bolts do it? Wouldn't be too much work to pull one and see what it looks like. Is it the bolt or the eccentric washer that shows the wear?
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Old 10-08-2009, 05:57 PM   #12
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+1 on the toe. We just had a truck that had a similar issue. Do you trust the rack & operator? Maybe go to another shop to see if the toe is in range.

You should be able to check for tie rod and ball joint wear easily enough by attempting to rock the wheels back and forth and side to side. I would assume your pressures are ok? Harder to check the bushings, but do you get squeaks or thuds when suspension is in motion?
Do trust the operator. Pressures are checked regularly.

Only unusual noise I have is a clunk in the steering if moving the steering wheel back and forth when stationary. My investigation into it looks like I need to tighten the steering rack internal adjustment bolt. Trouble is I haven't been able to get the damn cover bolt off of it.

Last edited by cueball1; 10-08-2009 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 10-08-2009, 06:48 PM   #13
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now that it's been suggested, toe out makes way more sense.
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Old 10-08-2009, 07:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cueball1 View Post
Do trust the operator. Pressures are checked regularly.

Only unusual noise I have is a clunk in the steering if moving the steering wheel back and forth when stationary. My investigation into it looks like I need to tighten the steering rack internal adjustment bolt. Trouble is I haven't been able to get the damn cover bolt off of it.
you know, my car does that too. I just noticed it yesterday and haven't had a chance to investigate.
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Old 10-08-2009, 07:27 PM   #15
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toe out will make the car twitchy, too. thats my bet.
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Old 10-08-2009, 07:28 PM   #16
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Wayne,

Here's the mnet post on the steering rack adjustment bolt.

MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - Front end clunk
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Old 10-08-2009, 07:43 PM   #17
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That mentions power steering, I have a manual rack. Is it the same on both? That article also mentions a clunk, which I have under hard right turns. I assumed a binding sway bar.
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Old 10-08-2009, 07:53 PM   #18
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Did you read through the rest of that thread? There is a cover on the manual rack. Don't know if there is an adjustment bolt under it or not. It takes a big hex fitting to open it that I wouldn't have.
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Old 10-09-2009, 04:32 AM   #19
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I would say if most of the miles are freeway like you said (90%) thats kind of normal. A little bad, but I would either run cheaper tires with higher wear for the street, or get some more body roll/turn more. Maybe adjust tire pressure a bit? Possibly add some pressure.

Thats a shame to see so much tread go to waste on those tires.

I would definitely make sure alignment is still where it should be and get the eccentrics swapped out next time like everyone says. Toe wear is usually a lot more evenly spread on a tire with so little -camber though.

I'm at -1.9f, -1.8R, 0 toe 400F/300R springs 1"front bar, no rear and get even wear with a little more wear on the outside edge(Falken Azenis). I don't do 90% freeway driving though.

As low as your car is it probably isn't rolling too much when you are turning because of the bumpstops being activated early. Cruising the freeway you are mostly staying on that inner edge.
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Old 10-09-2009, 09:10 AM   #20
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I had some shitty Toyos that were doing that. Went and got an alignment to find that I had a ton of toe-in on one side. Oddly enough steering wheel was straight and the car tracked just fine. I had them set 1/16" in because they explained to me how when driving down the road, the centrifugal force will actually cause a bit of toe-out. Mind you, this was from a VERY respectable shop in the Atlanta area that sets up TONS of car. I'm sure anyone around here will vouch for Gran Turismo East.
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