Is a sport brake upgrade worthwhile on a '99 - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain discuss the wondrous effects of boost and your miata...

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-30-2015, 02:03 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 549
Total Cats: 56
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
when you do notice "fade" where is it..
I simply don't experience fade... ever. I know I sound like i'm being a blowhard but i simply don't. I just finished a day at chuckwalla and I did 12, 20+ minute sessions in 105 degree ambient (143 degree surface temps) and never once had the pedal fade at all. Seriously, not once.

And this isn't a singled out event. I have never had these fad on me. Even when we were doing a 90+ degree day at the ACS roval or a 103 degree day at WSIR... the pedal has never moved off of it's typical engagement point.

More parts I forgot to list: willwood 1" master, motul rbf 600 and stock 99 booster.

Edit: I should add that I wouldn't expect to experience fade based on my data. I use color changing brake temp paint on my rotors and calipers. The outside edge of my rotors seem to get up to about 900 degrees, calipers seem to peak at about 500-600. This means I'm well within the temperature envelope of the XP10's.
EErockMiata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2015, 02:05 PM   #22
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (1)
 
OGRacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,764
Total Cats: 46
Default

oh, my mistake.
OGRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2015, 02:10 PM   #23
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,465
Total Cats: 783
Default

So what i'm hearing is that i need to move off of these damn EBC Yellows and just get Carbotechs like a boss so i can be like Eric.
concealer404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2015, 02:19 PM   #24
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 3,325
Total Cats: 235
Default

And James should ditch his AGXs for some Swank Force Racing Zyduhs.
thenuge26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2015, 02:19 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 549
Total Cats: 56
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
So what i'm hearing is that i need to move off of these damn EBC Yellows and just get Carbotechs like a boss so i can be like Eric.
Haha I'm just suspicious native caveman that collects data. I know just enough to be dangerous and make the wrong decisions.... as such I just spend a lot of time on track and take meticulous records while doing so. Everyone's experience is going to be different. For example, less experienced drivers are going to brake earlier, longer, with varying line pressures (up, down, up, down) and drag the brakes further into the corner.

I've experienced this myself with i turn the keys of my car over to my father when he comes to visit and do track days in my car. Fortunately for me it gives me alternate data points to see what happens when you're doing it wrong. He's a gold watch wearing corvette/camaro guy... so he drives the miata like an amateur.

As with anything YMMV. I'm too dumb to listen to anyone else and take their word for it. I just put stuff on the car, beat hte hell of out of it, and record what I see.
EErockMiata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2015, 02:19 PM   #26
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (1)
 
OGRacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,764
Total Cats: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
So what i'm hearing is that i need to move off of these damn EBC Yellows and just get Carbotechs like a boss so i can be like Eric.
carbotechs perform well but are expensive. most of the Continental teams that tested with carbotecs found that they wouldn't make it to the end of a 2 hour race. also in the 2013 season they had a high failure rate (material delamination). heck some of the mx-5 chassis where having a hard time making to the end of a race with padgid yellows. Our driver liam dwyer car (freedom auto sport) was campaigning for a class win at seabring this year till his car simply ran out of friction materiel. you can watch the replay and see the car missing a lot of turns and shooting into the grass. We where finding that the PFC race pads would have 2x the life. that's why i say carbotech are expensive because you'll need to buy two to go the same distance.


here's a video from Kevin Parlett. Crewman for a PWC team. he's also a driver for carbotech. had one of the pad failures captured on video.
OGRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2015, 02:39 PM   #27
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 200
Total Cats: 21
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
And James should ditch his AGXs for some Swank Force Racing Zyduhs.
So much want, so little monies!
slowcarfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2015, 02:43 PM   #28
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 3,325
Total Cats: 235
Default

Haha no not 949 Xidas, but the old 'bilstein shocks with ebay coilover sleeves' setup. They seem to be the go-to cheap racing suspension.
thenuge26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2015, 02:47 PM   #29
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 200
Total Cats: 21
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
Haha no not 949 Xidas, but the old 'bilstein shocks with ebay coilover sleeves' setup. They seem to be the go-to cheap racing suspension.
Ah, I see, my newb is showing. It seems some research is in order!
slowcarfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2015, 02:49 PM   #30
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (1)
 
OGRacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,764
Total Cats: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowcarfast View Post
Ah, I see, my newb is showing. It seems some research is in order!
i'll warn you right now about the afcos
OGRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2015, 03:07 PM   #31
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 3,325
Total Cats: 235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowcarfast View Post
Ah, I see, my newb is showing. It seems some research is in order!
No problem, read through this thread: https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...-thread-78451/
thenuge26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2015, 03:43 PM   #32
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,465
Total Cats: 783
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
carbotechs perform well but are expensive. most of the Continental teams that tested with carbotecs found that they wouldn't make it to the end of a 2 hour race. also in the 2013 season they had a high failure rate (material delamination). heck some of the mx-5 chassis where having a hard time making to the end of a race with padgid yellows. Our driver liam dwyer car (freedom auto sport) was campaigning for a class win at seabring this year till his car simply ran out of friction materiel. you can watch the replay and see the car missing a lot of turns and shooting into the grass. We where finding that the PFC race pads would have 2x the life. that's why i say carbotech are expensive because you'll need to buy two to go the same distance.
Pretty neat, but PFC not available for my calipers. :( Le sigh.
concealer404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2015, 05:01 PM   #33
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,999
Total Cats: 1,466
Default

You can make them fit. Just a bit of grinding.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2015, 12:07 AM   #34
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 951
Total Cats: -252
Default

EBC yellows have a heat rating to 1600 degrees F. I think that they have a lower coefficient of friction compared to some other pads so they might not feel as aggressive. I think the front Cobalt pads used in Spec Miata are only rated for 1200 degrees F.
wannafbody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2015, 10:12 AM   #35
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,465
Total Cats: 783
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wannafbody View Post
EBC yellows have a heat rating to 1600 degrees F. I think that they have a lower coefficient of friction compared to some other pads so they might not feel as aggressive. I think the front Cobalt pads used in Spec Miata are only rated for 1200 degrees F.

"Not feel as aggressive" accurately and completely understates their street performance.

I'm hoping something is actually wrong with my brakes, because these things are sketchtastic with what little heat you get in your brakes during street driving.
concealer404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2015, 01:06 PM   #36
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,865
Total Cats: 492
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
"Not feel as aggressive" accurately and completely understates their street performance.

I'm hoping something is actually wrong with my brakes, because these things are sketchtastic with what little heat you get in your brakes during street driving.
Many "race" pads have very poor friction when cold. Cruising on the freeway for extended periods is the equivalent to supercooling your brakes, and it's no wonder that the pads have no friction to offer for the next panic stop.

One of the biggest selling points of the PFC line is that they are a full-fledged high end race pad, but also have decent friction even when cold. You don't find that everywhere.

What uses are you trying to cover with your pads? Street, autox, HPDE, race? If you can't get PFC's for your calipers, you may be better served with one of the less extreme track pads which do offer decent low-temp friction - Carbotech XP8, Hawk DTC-30, Porterfield R41 - all of these offer at least decent friction when cold and don't need 300 degrees before waking up, and they all have fade resistance above 1000 degrees.

Any of those will be worlds better than the EBC yellows on the street. Monitor brake temperature at the track to see if the temperature range of the pads above will work for you.

-Ryan
ThePass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2015, 01:14 PM   #37
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
concealer404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,465
Total Cats: 783
Default

Street, autox, HPDE.

Carbotechs are the right answer i do believe, and i have a spare set of new rotors. I'm just gathering info now for when the rest of the car is sorted and get some miles on it.
concealer404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2015, 01:39 PM   #38
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (1)
 
OGRacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,764
Total Cats: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wannafbody View Post
EBC yellows have a heat rating to 1600 degrees F. I think that they have a lower coefficient of friction compared to some other pads so they might not feel as aggressive. I think the front Cobalt pads used in Spec Miata are only rated for 1200 degrees F.
Run from EBC. They make the biggest joke race pads ive ever seen. They say its rated to 1600 but I wouldn't believe it. Ive seen their stuff fail after being used for only a few laps. Keep in mind too that maximum pad temperature doesn't mean too much in the grand scheme of things. As long as you have a pad thats raded for 1000*+ youll be ok for hpde's.
OGRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2015, 03:13 PM   #39
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,865
Total Cats: 492
Default

I've heard from some of the fast guys in colder areas who were trying to run Carbotechs on the street that they were chunking and failing prematurely under street use.

I believe this was in reference to XP10/12, not XP8. I have no personal experience with said issues and have known local guys to street drive XP10s without problems. But down here it's always hot, and I only ever drove to/from the track on XP10s back when I used them.

-Ryan
ThePass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2015, 03:26 PM   #40
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 6,010
Total Cats: 583
Default

I've street driven the XP10s down into the 30s without issue.
hornetball is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 59 Yesterday 09:00 PM
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
Leaky Wilwoods mx592 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 1 10-01-2015 01:45 AM
3rd Time's a Charm...hopefully. zephyrusaurai Meet and Greet 2 09-28-2015 11:59 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:18 PM.