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Old 02-16-2012, 10:11 PM   #1
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Default We are discussing stainless hydraulic lines here, so chime in or play with your cat.

Seriously, your cat is probably bored right now, but braided clutch lines are not discussed nearly enough here, so if Skippy can entertain himself for a few minutes, this forum could use your insight.

949 sells a stainless braided line for the clutch (I think trackspeed sells them too, but their website isn't loading right now), and a number of places sell stainless lines for the brakes.

Firm brake pedals make my pants tighter, but do stainless lines make a big difference in that area? Isn't that their main purpose? I would totally pay $100 for a pedal feel like my dad's '87 911.

What does a stainless clutch line accomplish? It's only $40 at 949, but the clutch shouldn't be "firm" anyway. I could get rid of the annoying brackets on the transmission, but is it really worth that? This is the part I couldn't find any other threads on, so I assume nobody bothers with the stainless clutch line.
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:12 PM   #2
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The only reason I got the full race 949 clutch line is that it removes the focking curly-Q hard line to the slave cylinder.

It makes things so much easier that $40 is well, well worth it. Seriously, it was worth every cent to not have to deal with that stupid thing.
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:33 PM   #3
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I bought the trackspeed one, which also removes the curly-q.
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:42 PM   #4
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Okay, stupid question time: Why is that curl even there? What purpose does it serve? I have never seen one on other cars.
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:48 PM   #5
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Trackspeed's site is working fine for me, here's their $45 line:
http://trackspeedengineering.com/sto...ccfa7f4dfebaa3

Like blaen said it's nice to get rid of the curly-Q, and supposedly the real benefit of stainless lines shows up when it's hot. Stainless does nothing while rubber expands when it's pressurized.
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:11 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidude View Post
Firm brake pedals make my pants tighter, but do stainless lines make a big difference in that area? Isn't that their main purpose? I would totally pay $100 for a pedal feel like my dad's '87 911.
The ss lines do make a big difference. And for the relatively low price and ease of install, it's worth it. I've never driven an '87, but I drove a 94 carrera 2 briefly, and I don't think you'll ever get that porsche brake feel with stock calipers and a stock master cylinder.

The mainly accepted theory is that the rubber hoses flex/expand, so it takes more fluid to flex or expand the hoses to it's limit. But I recently read this the other day (the website is down so have to use google's cached files) http://www.ipdusa.com/newsletters/90...er-check-valve

If you can't read that poorly formatted garbage:
"Braided Steel Brake Lines. Myth and Reality
There’s a lot said about rubber lines “swelling” and causing a soft pedal. While this can happen in older cars, it’s not the primary gain from upgraded brake lines. Yes, the Teflon tube wrapped with braided steel has a much lower swell than rubber and textile lines. The firmer pedal that is so immediately apparent is mostly from the smaller inside diameter of the Teflon lines. Since the Teflon is more rigid, you can get away with a smaller diameter without increasing the risk of collapse. This means that you actually need to move less brake fluid to achieve the same application of brakes. The result? A more responsive pedal with greater feedback."

I'm no engineer so I can't verify that, but that seems entirely more likely. Especially since rubber hoses are decently stiff. But I'd rather have an engineer step in and drop some knowledge on us.
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:09 AM   #7
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I have both. Any other miata I ever own will get the SS clutch line the first time I have to do anything to the car in that area. Maybe before. For removal-of-PITA-factor, it's all win.

The SS lines, I'm not sure they made a difference in pedal feel. But more importantly, for track use when the brakes see manly temperatures, the SS hardware will survive unaffected. The rubber lines are a fail point waiting to happen on a tracked car, particularly a forced induction car that will see higher speeds (and correspondingly higher brake temps) than an NA car ever will.
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:26 AM   #8
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just got a stainless steel clutch line cause it was cheap, i was ordering other ---- from the vendor and my engine's out of the car.
i'd like to know more about this as well
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:32 AM   #9
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Pne of the best upgrades i done ever done done

Big difference just dew it dony jew it
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Old 02-17-2012, 05:10 PM   #10
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Basically, it removes the pain in the *** curly-q line. I won't pretend it does anything else, but IMO just removing that curly-q line makes it worth every penny.
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Old 02-17-2012, 05:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Basically, it removes the pain in the *** curly-q line. I won't pretend it does anything else, but IMO just removing that curly-q line makes it worth every penny.
I second this for the TSE clutch line.
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Old 02-17-2012, 07:03 PM   #12
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I ordered them both from 949 this morning. Clutch and brakes. Just looking at that curly ---- in my engine bay makes me glad it's going away.
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Old 02-17-2012, 07:53 PM   #13
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Regarding the "smaller ID, less fluid" theory...is brake fluid compressible? I mean, is it actually changing in volume at typical automotive hydraulic system levels? And if not, why would the amount of fluid matter?
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Old 02-17-2012, 09:05 PM   #14
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Bought the stainless clutch line from 949 days after I picked up my '99. It had a leaky slave cylinder, and the fluid was disgusting, so I figured I'd get rid of one point of possible leakage as well as the stupid curly-q since I was going to need to bleed the system.
I think it's worth it just for the ease of maintenance, to be honest. Don't expect any change in pedal feel.
Oh, and have a breaker bar handy for a pesky (17mm?) bolt that holds the curly q bracket. It's on there rather tight.
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Old 02-17-2012, 09:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Basically, it removes the pain in the *** curly-q line. I won't pretend it does anything else, but IMO just removing that curly-q line makes it worth every penny.
I agree. it did zero for me. pedal felt exactly the same, just removed the curly line.

As for the person who asked what the curly hardline does, its hard to tell, although it has been discussed on a few occasions on m.net (so you can find those threads if you want to read the details).

For the most part, the conclusion we came to is that its for cooling purposes. If you actually keep up with the clutch fluid and run something like RBF600 or whatever, you probably don't have to worry about it.

I have never really heard of anyone boiling their clutch fluid, but maybe in other cars where the clutch line maybe closer to the exhaust or something like that.
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:33 PM   #16
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I thought it was used to make it easier to assemble at the plant.
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:48 PM   #17
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No clue really, I think its been mostly speculation (as far as the cooling theory).
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Old 02-18-2012, 12:17 AM   #18
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I thought it had to do with air in the line. Getting it all in one place near the bleeder valve, so it doesn't float up to the hardline.
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Old 02-18-2012, 12:56 AM   #19
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I got one in the near past. It makes it harder.

Pedal feel that is
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Old 02-18-2012, 08:34 AM   #20
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It seems like the stainless line would be a greater improvement for cars with aftermarket clutches that require a bit more force to press down.
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