Joe Mauch

Oh that wasn't me, that was carnut169 who has his fully compressed. My helpers are half compressed with 550/350 springs. I sit at about 4" front and 4.25" rear pinch weld heights right now. When I just installed the xidas without adding preload, i was at 3.75" front and rear... I don't understand why people measure hub to fender.

carnut169

The rates are 550 and 350. Not sure what the uncompressed length is as they are currently compressed and installed.

My car is a 91 and I have the NB hats. Not sure why we'd have such different results to obtain the same ride height... I don't have the poly bushings (yet- they are on order), but can't see that changing anything. Maybe tire/ wheel/ I have Panasports 15x8 with 205/50/15s...

soviet

iTrader: (10)

your suspension will droop as low as it can go with poly bushings....

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

the NB hats do lower an NA miata quite a bit. I've always had to run a bit longer springs in the rear with them than most guys. But so long as your droop travel is still maxed by sway, you've only gained bump travel but adding the preload without any adverse effects. Hopefully emilio chimes in.

soviet

iTrader: (10)

XIDA CS only comes with NB mounts.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

yeah and all things being equal, the NA chasis that gets the same spring rates as the NB chasis should have to raise the perches a bit more then the NB to achieve the same ride height in that case.

so long as coil bind isn't coming into play and the droop travel hasn't been compromised, there's nothing inherently wrong with adding preload.

lassi

I have the same setup on a heavy MSM and had to use FM spacers in the rear to get to 4,25" ride height without preloading the helper all the way down. (YES! With the car in the air...)

This is with a 6" 350lbs spring in the rear.

The extra bushing goes under the topmount to allow some extra droop and basically just positions the shock lower in the topmount. It also does help get some extra ride height even if it doesn`t really make sence...

I tried with 7" springs, but this just landed the spring perch a bit to close to the driveshaft. I have my own design delrin topmount spring locator which also uses the original spring isolator rubber and also gives a bit more height than how they originally shipped out.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

anyone got a pic of the bushing -- just curious to see what you are all talking about.

soviet

iTrader: (10)

the little black round things, upper left corner of picture.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

put them between the mount and lower washer?

soviet

iTrader: (10)

yah i think that's how it was intended.
XIDAs don't come with instructions but if you think about it's not rocket surgery.

this is the normal bushing. the spacer would go between washer and shock.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

okay, makes sense. carry on.

Joe Mauch

Last Saturday, I took one of the rear shocks apart before I installed them and look at them like a confused ape for a while, and I did test fit that bushing under the tophat like lassi suggested because I thought I remembered a thread on CR where someone mentioned doing that.

IIRC, I didn't install them because with the two bushings under the tophat and then the bushing/washer on top of the tophat there were only a few threads left on the shock shaft for the nut to grab onto. I figured I was doing it wrong so I just installed the shocks the way 949 gave them to me, without the bushings installed.

I guess with the FM spacers and the bushings installed, I'd be able to remove a lot of preload and get my helpers more functional again which might improve ride quality?

I kind of understand that the additional bushing is moving the entire shock lower in the car, but what are the drawbacks? Loss of rear suspension travel? Seems like it's doing the opposite of the xida billet mounts or the FM rear shock mounts and limiting bump. I feel like such a noob with all these questions

owenwilliams

If the dampers were originally designed for quite low track-orientated ride heights, which is what I can gather, then isn't screwing the springs to 'significantly' (1 inch? .5 inches?) raise the ride height taking the dampers out of their designed operating range? As in, they'll work, but the damping sweep will be a bit off. This is the logic I'm working with that's lead me to want to space my car up with the equivalent of FM's top mount spacers, instead of just winding the springs up beyond the 4.75" front/5" rear measurement that Emilio provided me with.
So in short, I'd like to defend the people that are getting slated for using top mount spacers 'unnecessarily' :P Unless, of course, I'm wrong. Thoughts/facts please people.

Edit: also, wouldn't spacers allow you to fine tune the compression of the helper spring at a given ride height? I.e., Set your preload, and therefore your helper spring squashedness, then set the ride height with spacers.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

Without thinking this through I would assume you'd loose a little bit of bump travel, sound like you'd install it if you wanted to lower the bump stop a little more to stop the travel of the shock...maybe to prevent a tire from hitting the fender on very very low setups.

lassi

Correct.

Problem I had was that without the bushings it felt like I had to force the shock to droop fully to get my desired ride height.
I was more like forcing them to get to a height that it was not designed for and the remaining droop travel was becoming more like non-existant as I went higher.

The way I set it up now in the rear with the extra bushing and the topmount spacer and spring locator I have the ride height just the way I want it and preloaded the helper about half the way down at full droop in the rear. With a lighter NA you should have even less preload on the helpers.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

The extra bushing we include in each kits makes the damper longer for a given preload. Stroke remains the same since they mount above the collar, not below it. For heavier cars with softer springs running taller ride heights, it's good idea to add it in make the helper more effective.

The helpers are designed to be fully compressed at static ride height.

FM shock spacers do the exact same thing for $68. Ours are free and come with the kit.

mr_hyde

iTrader: (4)

Are we talking about the 'spring locators' discussed on m.net? For the record, my rear tender springs are completely coil bound at full droop. The fronts are fine. I don't have the ride height measurements handy but it is pretty low. When comparing the track car (NB/MSM subframes, control arms, etc) to the now stock MSM, the OEM MSM rear suspension droops 3 or 4" farther than the Xida equipped car. If I unhook the shock and sway, the track car's control arms droop as far as the MSM. How does the droop travel for the xidas compare to the bilsteins according to the build specs?

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

We ship each kit with foue extra black urethane shock mount bushings. These can be stacked on top of the identical bushing that is already against the mount on the underside. This makes the effective shock length about 1/2" longer which reduces preload required by the same amount.

Some cars end up with bound rear helpers, some don't. It depends on the weight and ride height.

Joe Mauch

No, spring locators afaik are a dead issue. Regarding the rear "helper" springs, so are mine. My 95 hasnt had any weight reduction. In fact all ive done is add weight to a fully optioned car with a rollbar, hardtop, rail braces, and gaining 15lbs since the holidays that I need to lose before summer. (Oops!)

I think this thread is about making a purpose built race shock streetable with a fat miata. I added the said bushings mentioned above along with the FM shock spacers to get the height I need to clear speed bumps and my driveway without adding a lot of preload.

I freaking love my xidas and have no regrets so far in choosing them over ohlins. Weight reduction on myself and the car coming this summer!