poormxdad

Gents,

I am at the beginning of diagnosing a new alignment issue and could use some expert advice.

Although I did not notice anything awry on track, on the way home my steering wheel required I hold about 15 degrees left to keep her in a straight line. There wasn't any kind of pull, no twitchiness, nothing concerning. I just suddenly had something out of alignment.

I set up my strings and got out the toe plates, assuming the driver's side rear wheel is still square, just to see if I could figure out where to start. I squared up the left front wheel with the string, and doing that centered the steering wheel. Then I measured a full half inch of toe out up front on the right wheel. I run zero toe. What could have happened? Also, I had no weird tire wear that would point to so much toe.

Thanks,

curly

iTrader: (25)

Did you eccentrics slip?

poormxdad

Just now going to get her up on jack stands.

I failed to mention the right front went from 2.3 to 1.6 degrees of camber. Something is definitely not right.

matrussell122

iTrader: (1)

Toe, camber split and caster split could all cause this. However camber and caster spit will cause a pull if you let go of the wheel. Was the road flat with no road crown? That slight of a steering wheel misalignment could have been caused by a slope in the road.

poormxdad

The wheel was like that the whole trip home. 216 miles.

curly

iTrader: (25)

Your camber just slipped, put it back to 2.3, tighten if like a man, then your toe will be back to near zero.

matrussell122

iTrader: (1)

What Curly said

poormxdad

Roger. The forward alignment bolt had rotated fully upwards. Should the bolt be replaced?

BTW, I have two Miatas, my track car and a sh!tbox '90. Between the two I've put down 120,000+ miles, a bunch of autocrossing, and almost 150 track days and I've never had that happen before.

wackbards

iTrader: (2)

The torque spec for miata eccentrics is about 1/2 what it needs to be. If you torque them at ~40 ft lbs, they slip. If you torque them at ~80 ft lbs, they start becoming consumables.

wherestheboost

iTrader: (-1)

^^^ Is this why the recommend alignments every 6 months (not that I do)? Slip by design?

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

OEM eccentrics will slip under post 1G cornering loads. We torque to 1 Sonny. He's 5-7", slim and hangs off an 18" offset box wrench. Yes, those fasteners are consumables. Keep two in your track spares.

On Vegas, which sees 2G spikes with aero loads, we had to switch to Paco Motorsports locking eccentrics. Even deeply over torqued brand new OEMs would not hold. Helps to etch subframe. Smooth paint or powder coat exacerbates the slippage.

wherestheboost

iTrader: (-1)

1 Sonny. That's fantastic.

dc2696

iTrader: (2)

https://www.advanced-autosports.com/...alignment-cams

OEM bolts aren't worth replacing, we switched to these (Spec Miata compliant), no slips and no problems retorquing after multiple alignments.

poormxdad

Sir,

Their webpage says "The cams have been designed with a slightly different offset,...". I called and asked what that meant. The very nice lady on the other end said she'd have me an answer Monday. The OEMs measure 4mm from the edge of the disk to the closest point of the shaft. I purchased some from IL Motorsports a while back and they measure 5mm. Basically useless for the front. I got 0.4 degrees less camber than expected using the IL cams.

Can you tell me what that measurement is for the linked-to adjusters?

Thanks,

dc2696

iTrader: (2)

I can measure them when I get off work, but for reference I have no issue getting 3.6° in front with a 4 3/4" ride height (with delrin offset bushings).

Here's a post from the owner on an SM forum a few years ago about the bolts.

"My bolts are the same diameter as factory. They use a D shape rather than the slot/tang that the factory uses to rotate the washer. They do use a 18mm wrench instead of the oem's 14 or 17mm wrench.

They are not "crash bolts". Crash bolts are a smaller diameter bolt shaft that allows for more adjustment than factory adjusters. Sometimes providing adjustment where there was none from the factroy

My bolts do NOT increase camber. The limiting factor, on any of the adjustments, is the slot in the subframe. Not the bolt or the washer. They make it easier to get max adjustment. this is because they provide more "lift" than the oem ones. Mine actually bottom out the bolt in the slot. Which the factory ones do not. But you can do this with a prybar and the oem washers.

If your car had a max of 2.7* camber with oem bolts, you will get a max of 2.7* with my bolts. they are just a better quality design than the oem ones.

dave"

poormxdad

Thanks much!

themonkeyman

I'm still not clear on what *makes* them better; he claims the thicker washers will increase clamp force. Thicker washers will not increase the clamp load, the stock ones do not deform even at ~double OEM torque spec. Higher torque value is what will increase clamp force. He says they are the same diameter as the OEM bolt, and between the fine threads and 12.9 rating of the OEM bolt, I don't see how that one can withstand more torque. Am I missing something? Looks like a hot-dip-galvanized copy of the OEM bolt.

dc2696

iTrader: (2)

It doesn't stretch much when its torqued to 150ft/lbs, so its re-useable, while the OEM bolts work fine they just don't last over time if you are doing a fair amount of alignment changes.

I have a pile of the oem bolts and I got tired of throwing money out on them, so far I've done a few alignments (probably close to 6 now) on these bolts with no issues having them stand up to the torque.