Xida XL & ACE
 

We have been working on something new for a while. While we do not have an ETA or exact pricing yet, we thought it was time to at least let you all know about the work in progress.

The current NA/NB Xida are designed with shorter than OEM bodies to allow greater bump travel than OEM. Meaning a car with Xidas will allow it's wheels to travel much further upwards into the wheel well than an OEM length shock. This benefits compliance and improves grip when the car is much lower than OEM ride height.

We have always had a few customers desiring the great damping quality and bump absorption of the Xida but wanting to run a ride height closer to OEM, in the 5.25-6.25" pinch weld height range. There are also other applications that would be better served by a longer Xida.. so we created the Xida XL..The Xida XL is otherwise identical to the standard Xida. Same valving, same price, just longer. Xida XL stroke the same as OEM. This means that those wanting to run pinch weld heights under 5" will still want Xida, not Xida XL. Bump travel with Xida XL will be basically the same as OEM NB.

E Street
ES autocross where the length must be within 25mm of OEM, up to two damping adjustments allowed, OEM springs and mounts. We are producing billet lower spring perch adapters to fit OEM NA and NB springs. Those running and NA will need to drill the hole in their mounts out to 14mm to fit the Xida shaft. Double adjustable Xidas for E Street? Yeah that's gonna be cool. The single adjustable version will cost less of course.

Exocet
These cars have a modified version of Miata suspension geometry and really work best with a shock that is longer than our standard Xida.

Drop Spindles
There are not many NA/NB Miatas running around with drop spindles, but they also require a shock that is OEM length or longer.

Xida GS
This is the variant we are the most excited about. This is essentially a lower cost, single spec (non-customizeable) version of our standard Xida. The Xida GS, based on the longer Xida XL, will come with a standard racing spring in 550/350 rates, torrington bearings but no helpers. NB mounts only, pre assembled. If you already have NB mounts, now you have spares :). The key cost savings comes from replacing the expensive pro level Hyperco springs with a standard quality (europe sourced) race springs. We expect the complete assembled Xida GS kit to sell for $1599. The legendary ride quality of the Xida actually gets better with a full 1" increase in rear stroke with translates to about 1.4" more droop travel.

Xida ACE
Yes folks, we will finally have fully sorted active suspension Xida ACE shocks for the NA/NB. The ACE internals just would not fit into the standard Xida without losing stroke. The Xida XL removes that constraint. The ultimate NA/NB ride quality is the province of the Xida. If you though regular race Xidas rode well with 800/500, your jaw will drop when you ride in an 550/350 ACE equipped car down a lumpy pock marked road. Other worldly control and absorption (and goofy fun besides).

ACE can be used on the following applications:

Street or track cars with ride heights above 5" pinch weld
Exocet
Drop spindle cars
Autocross cars where class rules allow active suspension.

When!!!?
What!!??!
How Much??!!

We are still in R&D phase, not taking orders just yet. Best guess is shipping mid August. If all goes as planned, we should have at least on E Street car on them at Solo Nationals in September.

Contact us at info@949racing.com to learn more.

Pre-production prototype
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...7653fb11cb.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...49a2c480d0.jpg

Are these the replacement for the Tecna's you mentioned a while back? I will be shooting you an email sometime soon. I will be looking to get at least one set of these new shocks. Not sure if the XL or the GS.

If we used those with extended tophats, wouldn't hey almost serve as a standard Xida replacement? Like a dual-purpose shock? Normal tophats- road driving and E-street. Extended tophat- racing.

Tecnas are not damping adjustable, still in development and will cost little more than half of what Xidas cost.

Extended top mounts do not make a shock longer. They just relocate it. There is no way around it, if you are going to run really low ride heights you need Xidas. If you were going to run ride heights above 5.25" on 550/350 or softer you want Xida XL.

Sounds great because I need to save money on my part-time HPDE car to put more money into my SuperMiata2 build.

Unless you drop the big coin, and go with the drop spindles. Long shocks, lower ride height. Not for the low budget, but if you are looking to the active suspension (ACE) I have to think budget is relative.

ACE and drop spindles :cool:

Thats what Taxi is getting. Glory shall ensue.

Doh, I just bought regular Xida with 700/400 and helpers and have them cranked all the way up. Stick at 4.75" front or so when I was shooting for 5-5.25. Oh well. Still love them and the ride thougb.

Hmmm... FM lift kit, Xida XL and some gnarly sbow tires?

949 Racing Rallycross team?

We have joked about the idea of taking a Craiglist beater out to the SoCal Rallycross event for years. A set of Xida XL, 10" springs with no sway bars and some skinny all seasons and welded diff would be a hoot.

YESSSS!!!!

DOOO ITTTT!

Send PayPal donations and worthy Craigslist candidates to dan@949racing.com.

Kidding, please don't send me Craigslist junk.

Too late meow!

I support this idea for the fun of it.

in for 949 Xida XL / Drop spindle MEGA grip kit! https://www.miataturbo.net/images/icons/icon10.gif

Are piggyback canisters on the standard length (short) rear Xidas something that could happen? I remember this being mentioned as a potential improvement to the shorter shock length constraints / higher gas pressure required.

I know tractive do make with them, no idea if their solutions would work with the miata packaging constraints though.

Triple adjustable NA/NB Xidas are on the website and have been for several years.

Gotcha, but I meant for less gas pressure ramp during compression i.e. no hoses / not remotely mounted. Canister mounted via solid alloy passage for oil that won't flex/cause hysteresis.

The hose causes no meaningful hysteresis. If you are concerned with a small amount of hysteresis in the rear of the standard Xida, then you are more concerned than we are about it :) The shock works exceptionally well as is. So I understand your question but have no plans to build such a variant. Triples are your answer.

Thanks - it was really a theoretical question as I saw V8R had gone that way with their Ohlins TTX's and that Tractive had pictures on their website of similar for other applications.

Single adjustables will be plenty for me when I get round to buying some (and I'm 100% sure my hamfisted driving couldn't tell the difference!)

Behold:

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a09d4772e4.jpg

Pre production prototype Xida ACE for NA/NB. The canister was implemented to preserve nitrogen volume as the ACE internals take up some of the space. The knobs on the canister are dummies, no adjustments there.

It's difficult to convey just how excited we are to be able to bring these to market. The ride quality is sublime while having that ability to stiffen for hard cornering or braking instantly. It's eerie to feel the car floating over broken pavement then just hunker down when you stab the brakes or crank the wheel. You quickly get used to it and start to feel a bit like Superman (or Superwoman).

To me, that shock assembly represents the pinnacle of NA/NB suspension. I'm eager to here what people think about the ride and handling once these start making their way out into the wild.

Its hard to tell, but is that just a couple of wires to control the oil valve (edit: if there's even a controllable valve)? Are the electromechanics really in the shock body!? Mind is being blown... Desire to see internals is skyrocketting... PWM control?

When I get those, if they squeak, I get a full refund, k?

Some pics from testing today. Finally got the ACE for NA/NB installed in "Scully", Dan's red MCS. 550/300 rates because we were out of 350's. As this is just a temp setup for testing, the brain and controller not permanently installed. Ran it at 6" pinch weld with 205/50 Maxxis VR-1 on our 15x8 6UL. OEM sway bars, links and bushings.

Settings are 1-5, 5 being stiffest
DDA is base stiffness
Roll is how much the shocks stiffen in response to lateral acceleration
Pitch is how much the shocks stiffen in response to fore-aft acceleration/deceleration

For highway and around town, we think 1 DDA, 2-4 roll, 2-3 pitch is nice. Lets it float over bumps when driven normally but responds quickly when you carve into a freeway on ramp. On a twisty, lumpy back road, DDA 1 is too soft. Adjust DDA to 2-3 for most sticky street tires when hooning. Maybe DDA 4 for track or autocross use. Roll on 5 is nice in hoon mode as you don't get any stiffness reaction until you snap into a turn.

A few general notes about the ACE

Higher Roll Center = softer springs
The taller ride height significantly raises the roll center. The increase in roll stiffness is instantly apparent. As if you bolted on big sway bars. For this reason, we are going to recommend sticking with stock sway bars for all the Xida XL, GS and ACE variants. Adjusting the ACE controller to roll 3 or 4 and the roll is so much reduced that stiff sway bars would only detract from grip and ride quality.

Shocks partially take the place of sway bars
Because the ACE actively stiffen the shocks when needed, there is a reduced need for stiff springs. We figure most XL/GS and ACE owners will be after maintaining max ride quality while still having the option for sport or competitive driving. XL & GS require opening up the hood and playing with damping settings to switch from daily to autocross/HPDE. ACE do it on the fly with the touch of a button.

We are going to experiment with 300/200 springs to see just how much Cadillac we can get out of it. Even with 550/300 rates, it's just dreamy even when blasting over the worst pavement and expansion joints.
For the XL variants, we won't even offer the 700/400 and higher rates and higher that are available for Xida Race.

A few more things to validate and we'll put the first batch into production. Much excite!

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...75248aabf9.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...22cb685e86.jpg

Suhweet.

I apologize for my lack of intelligence and experience in this area, and I am sure there are far more variables to consider when answering this question, but at a high level I assume the ACE suspension is geared more for dual-duty cars whereas the race xidas are still preferable for dedication track cars...?

I appreciate any input!

An XL based Ace setup will have a much higher min ride height capability. There are many pros and cons to that, the biggest pro is that the geometry stays in a range where you retain lots of pitch and roll resistance and don't need the crazy spring rates we sometimes run with Xida Race(as the originals will now be called). Other than that, they have all the same goodness that Xida Race have had all along.

Xida Race are designed to allow much more upward/bump travel than OEM. So they function extremely well at very low ride heights, which is good for Cg, camber gain, and other race oriented stuff.
Xida XL(and therefore Ace) are designed around a closer-to-OEM travel range. This allows us to fit the XL shock into SCCA's ES autocross class, but limits their ride height range. AKA: They can't go low, bruh. The extra body length allows us to fit the Ace valve, etc. The variants are all dependent on each other for any of them to be viable products.

With offset bushings or ELBJs to get the camber(instead of extreme lowering), we forsee the Ace being extremely competitive in classes that allow active/reactive shocks. One Lap of America, Unlimited Time Attack, etc.

They will also quite simply be the most Cadillac option for a dual duty car that we can dream up. :P

Sounds like sex in a tube.

Nice job guys.

I realize its probably too early to know (given you haven't had a chance to do any testing/setup experimentation) but any thoughts on how a max performance XL/ACE setup with drop spindles will compare to the normal race setup with high spring rates when both are optimised for best performance?

Trying to get my head around how softer springs for more grip with reactive stiffening dampers for roll/pitch control would behave- sounds complicated!

We haven't tested the combo but in theory, drop spindles and Xida ACE would be the fastest possible setup.

any good links to the theory of how these shocks work in a road race application? If I am following correctly they increase/decrease the wheel rate as required, but is this for a 'moment' as the shocks still need to control the spring?

Apologies for slightly off topic. Well done to 949 investing in getting something like this out there.

Although the mechanism is different (electro-mechanically activated/controlled valve I think for tractive's ACE), what they're doing is basically the same as magnetorheological dampers - changing the damper forces on the fly with an ECU. Doing some googling I found an interesting literature review in this PhD thesis of semi-active damping strategies: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/19396958.pdf

'Wheel rate' typically refers to spring rate at the wheel (i.e. after motion ratios, spring rate of tyres sometimes etc. are factored in). These don't change the spring rates, they change the amount of damping (i.e. resistance to shock shaft travel). But since it can be semi-actively varied, you can use them to do things like resist chassis movement momentarily in a way that mimics a stiffer spring, while still softening for them at other times for ride compliance (even if the events "look" the same in terms of shaft speed that a non-active damper couldn't react differently too.

Yeah it's pretty super cool imo.

Holy crap this is cool. From Tractive's facebook page - customer-submitted video displaying the damping of each individual shock in real-time based on sensor data from vehicle on track:
Apologies if getting too off-topic from xidas...

Yup. It's hard to explain what the ACE is capable of with a DSC controller. With enough sensors, you can tune in transient wedge. IOW adding low speed compression and softening low speed rebound diagonally to get the car to rotate faster. You can then choose what speeds and by how much. You can then separate and weight different inputs like steering from braking. So you could say, tune it to turn in faster only when trail braking below 50mph at >.6g. Then you have the GPS locating to tune just for a certain corner. Crazy stuff. The Tractive fob that comes with our ACE kits is far simpler but still pretty cool. To get the next level tuneabilty, you order a Restomod DSC control box from TPC Racing and ask for a base map for the Tractive ACE valve.

On a related note, we just got a DSC box for the GT350. Plan to start playing with those maps. Thinking about building an autocross specific map over the top of the Drag map to make use of the launch control, line lock and staging features native to the GT350.

Please post video of standing burnout at your local autox.

In Pro Solo its nice to be able to hold the car in place with your foot off the brake.

I just chuckled at the image.

I would like to jump stuff. Would these allow me to jump stuff with some tall gravel tires and drive around America's forest roads like a heathen? My AST's are due for a rebuild and this just sounds like more fun.

Actual class 8 off-road truck shocks and World Rally Car shocks are fascinating. Things like adjustable hydraulic bump stops, bypass on both the rebound and compression side. That is basically position sensitive damping. That does not describe any Xida.

That said, Xidas to do handle bad surfaces really well. I would not hesitate to do bomb down some gravel roads but if you're frequently catching air with the whole car and bottoming harshly sooner or later you're going to kill a shock and pretty much everything else in the suspension including cracking subframes. They are just not built for that.

Fresh off a Xida Ace test drive on 300/200 springs.

You guys, it is a freakin' magic carpet.
It is #MaximumCadillac instilled in Miata form.

With the DDA and Pitch settings on 1 of 5 and the Roll on 4, it floats over bridge expansion joints and tree rooted canyon roads. It soaks up driveway gutters like you wouldn't believe. Then you throw it into a turn and the active Roll damping turns it into an S2 Supermiata. If it wasn't for the softtop banging around, you'd think it was a brand new Z4 or SLK.

With the higher ride heights providing a bunch of inherent roll resistance, you don't need the big swaybars. Therefore, you don't get any of the tramlining or harshness from bumps that only one wheel hits.
The soft springs REALLY highlight the capabilities of the Ace system. I think this will be our recommendation for Ace buyers: Go Cadillac on the spring-rates and let the active compression damping go to work. Use stock swaybars for maximum ride quality.

Awesome!
What sensors does the system use/read?

Pitch and roll sensors?
A vertical accelerometer front and rear?

Earlier in this thread you'll see picture of the box with the yaw/g sensors.

Cool beans.
Presumably 3-axis gyro and 3-axis accelerometers.

So does setting "roll" stiff, stiffen the shocks during a rate of change of sideward gees? (i.e. during the transient)
Or does it stiffen while cornering G's are present?

Yes.

Think there is any way to fit some proper tires? Daily use (abuse) and forest use, road trips, etc. The Paco kit is a bit... rambunctious. Not that this isn't but, ya know. I like going fast and breaking parts sucks. Seam welding and skid plates and all that are an obvious. Thinking a 195. It's an idea. Not 100% on it but the XL's are probably going to replace my AST's since they are trying to bounce me off the road and I don't think I'd mind height again. Driving Miatas is fun kind of no matter what.
https://www.pirelli.com/tires/en-us/...oducts-sheet/k

Tire choices for an offroad Miata are a great topic for a new thread.

You can get transient wedge with just the rebound adjustable by the computer and the bump fixed, right?

In platforms like the ND with native GPS, you can do that in just one turn on a circuit if you like. The pro teams running DSC controllers with ACE systems do that.

Is the ACE system will be legal in SuperMiata S2 let say, or it's more oriented for double duty and mountain drives ?

EDIT : Street or track cars with ride heights above 5" pinch weld from OP post

Semi active shocks not legal in SPM or virtually any other racing class for that matter. As outlined in the original post, the ACE are intended for street and dual duty cars where the additional comfort and performance are in the budget.

Will you have a car at M@MRLS with ACE on it?

NB & ND. We will be giving rides on the street, not the track. Laguna Seca is too smooth to really demonstrate what the Xida ACE are capable of.

Cool. Hope I can get a ride.

Xida XL Preorders are open! ETA Oct 5th ship date.

Xida coilovers Miata



ACE and GS to follow as we nail down the last few details.

Hmm, can you think of an area near LS that would demonstrate it?

We'll drive around on the streets a bit. It'll be awesome. Don't over think it, although I know that is your stock in trade :)

Question about spring rates.

If the GS is only available with 550/350 springs and is supposed to be a cheaper touring option, then why are the XL spring rates arranged
550/350 Race
450/300 Sport
300/200 Touring.

I would've thought that the GS would be more comfort oriented.

Just trying to understand it and decide whether to go with the GS or the XL in one of the softer rates.
(Potholed Canadian roads with some tracking mixed in)