Speculation and Discussion Thread about V8Roadsters LFX Swap - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Various Auto News Posts from our affiliate sites covering trucks, cars, bikes and more.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-25-2014, 09:10 PM   #21
Hug Life
iTrader: (3)
 
Monk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Huntington, Indiana
Posts: 2,803
Total Cats: 494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
If you really want to get crazy, the integrated exhaust manifold's outlet looks quite similar to a turbo flange
Yes it do:
Monk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 09:16 PM   #22
Hug Life
iTrader: (3)
 
Monk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Huntington, Indiana
Posts: 2,803
Total Cats: 494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
But the engine isn't paired with a manual trans in the ATS or CTS.
Right, after the getrag was dc'd caddy started using 6 and 8 speed autos with a paddle shifter. I think the Suzuki vehicles used an Aisin.
Monk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 10:05 PM   #23
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
williams805's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Goleta, Southern California
Posts: 510
Total Cats: 25
Default

I have been hoping for some time that some one would stuff one of the these newer V6's with direct injection into a miata. GM, Ford, Hyundai, Nissan, whatever. I love that they are lighter and cheaper than V8 but yet more torque and power than most 4's. I'm very glad someone is coming to market with a bolt in kit!

Now I really wish I didn't blow my **** up and spend 3k on rebuilding! Damn! Maybe forged bottom end BP for sale?

I'm also very curious to see what power can be had using D.I. Or other possibilities? Has anyone started spraying fuel during exhaust stroke to keep turbos spooled? I fuggin love the potencial of D.I. and hugely variable cams on both intake and exhaust!
williams805 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 09:25 AM   #24
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10
Total Cats: 1
Default

I have been following the LFX swap for a while. The mounting kit can actually be purchased now but there is still a lot of information that needs to get released before I am sure I want to head down the path.

Some of the info I have found:And questions I have been pondering
  • Will they be offering a reasonably priced kit to allow the use of the stock diff without the PPF?
  • What will be needed/involved for fuel delivery, cooling, gauges?
  • How tall is this engine? I have seen some people say 30" but that can't be right if V8R got it to fit under the hood of a Miata.
  • Will you be able to easily mix and match engines, trans, ecu, harness, or will it be a nightmare to get everything to play nice if they did not all come from the same donor?
  • Will other car guys like the street-rod crowd embrace this engine for swaps which could lead to the availability of easy strip down plug and play ECU and harness setups like is available for the LS?


Titus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 09:51 AM   #25
Moderator
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,669
Total Cats: 1,561
Default

Shandelle indicated the trannies were available new from GM in a crate because he quoted a "new" price from GM to me. I just don't recall exactly what it was.

I'm sure all will be revealed in good time. This is just a speculation thread.

The Caddy version called the LF3 comes as a twin turbo 420hp.

Quote:
LF3

The 3.6 L twin-turbocharged version for the 2014 Cadillac CTS and 2014 Cadillac XTS has been announced at the 2013 NYAS.[16]

The engine is rated at 420 hp (313 kW) of power @ 5750 rpm and 430 lbft (583 Nm) of torque @ 3500-4500 rpm (with 90% of torque being available at 2500-5500 rpm) and helps the CTS achieve 0-60 mph time of 4.6 seconds with an 8-speed automatic transmission.

In essence, the twin-turbo 3.6L V6 is the force-inducted variant of the popular LFX V6 currently found in the Cadillac ATS, XTS, and SRX, among many other GM models, with several important upgrades, including:

All-new cylinder block casting
All-new cylinder head castings
Strengthened connecting rods
Forged steel crankshaft
Continuously variable valve timing
Large 38.3 mm intake valves and 30.6 mm sodium-filled exhaust valves
Machined, domed aluminum pistons with top steel ring carrier for greater strength
10.2:1 compression ratio
Patented, integrated charge air cooler system with low-volume air ducts
Two turbochargers produce more than 12 pounds of boost (80 kPa)
Vacuum-actuated wastegates with electronic control valves
All-new direct injection fuel system
Tuned air inlet and outlet resonators, aluminum cam covers and other features that contribute to exceptional quietness and smoothness.

Applications:
Year(s) Model Power Torque Dyno Chart
2014–present Cadillac XTS 410 hp (306 kW) @ 5750 rpm 369 lbft (500 Nm) @ 3500-4500 rpm link
2014–present Cadillac CTS 420 hp (313 kW) @ 5750 rpm 430 lbft (583 Nm) @ 3500-4500 rpm link
V12
MORE
sixshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 12:12 PM   #26
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Shandelle indicated the trannies were available new from GM in a crate because he quoted a "new" price from GM to me. I just don't recall exactly what it was.

I'm sure all will be revealed in good time. This is just a speculation thread.

The Caddy version called the LF3 comes as a twin turbo 420hp.



MORE
OK... I found a couple sites listing the trans for around $3k.

Speculating on total cost to do with all new parts:

Crate Engine: $4400
ECU/Harness: $1000
Transmission: $3000
Clutch/flywheel: $500
Mounting Kit: $1800
Custom Exhaust: $800
Cooling: $800
Diff mount PPF Elimination kit: $400
Driveshaft: $300
Gauges adaptation: $500
Fuel delivery: $300
DBW Gas peddle: $200


Lots of guesses there but that adds up to $14k. Probably can save 6k going with junkyard parts for the first 4 items on the list, but figure at-least a grand in unexpected costs. A safe budget for a junkyard build is probably $10k. I guess I need to save more.

Now the LF3 would be crazy. It isn't available as a crate motor at this time but maybe some day. I'm guessing you would need to go with their full rear end conversion kit as well at those levels.
Titus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 05:06 PM   #27
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,391
Total Cats: 58
Default

Not a speculation about the kit but rater a very special case of finding parts that might fit my purpose. Thinking out loud and storing my thoughts is a good place.

Purpose; Get a swap made using a 2.8+AY6+Getrag diff to meet the requirement for registration as "modified Vehicle" here. Max 150Kw/ton in that case so LFX might be a later change under the radar.

1. Transmission, the AY6 would suit my purpose nicely, and the TR6060 seems to be even more expensive than the T56 (used).
In which cars are the AY6 most common in the US (cheapest dumpster find)? Yes, I can read Wikipedia...
Would all GM AY6 have the same bolt pattern and starter location?

2. Engine, the 2.8 LP1 was only available in the CTS 05-07 according to Wiki, but it does not seem to be that common. one found on ebay for $1k (with a note "FWD", huh).
Is the 2.8 with external headers much bigger than the LFX (who knows, why touch a small engine)?

3. Diff+axles, I need to get something not-miata to qualify for "modified".
V8R Getrag is apparently pulled from CTS, so one more part from the same car. Getting axles made should not be difficult locally.

It would be wonderful if engine, gearbox and diff could be sourced from the same CTS here in Europe. There are some 2.8 with manuals available for about 5k euros (counting shipping and taxes and it's 1:1 €:$ from my perspective).

Would the ECU for the 2.8 play nice (have it been cracked)? But who knows what's in a Euro CTS?
Hmm, who would want a CTS without engine/trans/diff/axles?

But this is something different than crate LFX + crate TR6060 and using the miata diff. Carry on.
NiklasFalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 05:43 PM   #28
Moderator
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,669
Total Cats: 1,561
Default

Car-part.com
sixshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 06:08 PM   #29
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,391
Total Cats: 58
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Car-part.com
Thanks, that gave a lot of insight

Now back to keeping the current project alive.
NiklasFalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 07:15 PM   #30
Hug Life
iTrader: (3)
 
Monk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Huntington, Indiana
Posts: 2,803
Total Cats: 494
Default

The 2.8 is the same block, so dimensions should be the same.
Would the PPF need to be eliminated. Is there any reason it couldn't just be bolted to a bracket on the cross-member?
Monk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 07:25 PM   #31
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk View Post
Would the PPF need to be eliminated. Is there any reason it couldn't just be bolted to a bracket on the cross-member?
That would be a possibility but it may depend on the exaust needs of the engine. Getting rid of the ppf makes exhaust routing easier.
Titus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 07:51 PM   #32
Hug Life
iTrader: (3)
 
Monk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Huntington, Indiana
Posts: 2,803
Total Cats: 494
Default



I agree somewhat, but it seems like the biggest hinders ce is the rear subframe.
Monk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2014, 05:25 PM   #33
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 433
Total Cats: 28
Default

Jumping in to bump this...

The car was at Laguna, and here's a couple of quotes from a thread on M.net:

Quote:
V8 Roadsters had their very first V6 NB running around Laguna Seca at the 25th Anniversary Miata meet yesterday. It looked very well finished, as expected. Tons of ground clearance and tons of room in front of the engine as well. Word is that with the six speed that comes with that engine (2012 Camaro) there are no need for transmission tunnel modifications.

Did about 15 laps around Laguna with Steve. Very pleasantly surprised with torque and power. 7200 rev limit and pulls hard all the way. Chassis was set up for street and had 360 tread wear tires but it drove around most everything on the straights. It's going to be an awesome alternative to LS and the next step is to try to get smog legality in Ca.
Anyone here get a look at/ride in it?
Roda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 04:56 PM   #34
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hurricane, UT
Posts: 6,924
Total Cats: 526
Default

Any photos? Probably saw it. Silver with black stripes?

I'm gonna laugh if it's silver with black stripes because I blew it away on the straights
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 09:33 PM   #35
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10
Total Cats: 1
Default

I don't see a black strip in any of the pics.




Titus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 09:50 PM   #36
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hurricane, UT
Posts: 6,924
Total Cats: 526
Default

Nope not the car I was thinking of. Not sure which class he was running in, Just an X on the window? Instructor?
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 09:19 AM   #37
Moderator
Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,669
Total Cats: 1,561
Default

Wheels are too big but the engine fits like a glove.
sixshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2014, 12:51 AM   #38
Newb
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Florida Panama City/Pensacola
Posts: 38
Total Cats: 3
Default

The engine fits like a glove in an NB but is it going to clear the hood in an NA?
PetrolPiglet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2014, 08:06 PM   #39
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,092
Total Cats: 90
Default

I see they filled it with dexcool. :( Getting an engine with zero trace of dexcool in it might make the new crate engine option worth it. Also notice that its using the GM coolant expansion tank that has the rad cap on it and a radiator with no rad cap. Will that be included in the kit? I mean you could always just put a very high rated cap on the radiator or add a bunch of shims to the spring to jack the rate up.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2014, 09:37 AM   #40
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Posts: 265
Total Cats: 36
Default

This transplant is what is delaying my engine build. If it's a 10k swap I can probably get 1/2 that selling all of my current turbo stuff. Factor in the $3k I'd spend building the new motor and it's only $2k more for the v6.
carnut169 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OTS Bilstein to motorsports ASN conversion stoves Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 5 04-21-2016 04:00 PM
Noob to Miataturbo from MA JxPhan Meet and Greet 3 10-02-2015 03:17 AM
Going back to stock. Need some 1.6 parts. Trent WTB 2 10-01-2015 01:15 PM
Leaky Wilwoods mx592 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 1 10-01-2015 01:45 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:22 PM.