Xlar

Looking for a recommendation on tires. I've been doing HPDE and have finished 12 events. I started off running the Fleva V701 and have just worn out my Continental ECS. The ECS has done really well but I'm looking to upgrade for 2 reasons:

1. I'm getting faster and more consistent to where the ECS does great for 3-4 laps and then gets greasy and a couple seconds slower for the rest of the session. I'd like to get something that will be more consistent since I still have a ton to learn!
2. Would be nice if they lasted a little longer. My ECS have done 6 HPDE (~100 min each) + 8k street miles. My plan is to get a new set of 205/50R15 ECS for daily driving and then a set of 15x9 wheels with 225/45R15 to swap on for HPDE. I drive ~400 miles round trip to and from the track so I don't want to ruin the 225 tires on those highway miles.

My current thoughts:
Hankook RS4 or Contentntal ExtremeContact Force seem to be great choices, looks like the RS4 would be about ~$700 and ECF would be ~$800. Another interesting option is I could get a set of Falken RT660 for just ~$500. Would the Falken be a good option or would I be better off spending more on either the RS4 or ECF?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Here is my current setup:
Stock power
Xida 700/400 (4.9" rear height, 4.75" front)
Racing Beat Tubular 1.125" front sway bar
SuperMiata 14mm rear sway bar
SuperMiata dual duty alignment

capitalcrew

My use and setup are similar to yours. I run RT660s. No complaints.

Clifton

From all the Grassroots Motorsports tests and the latest issue, the RC1 seems good. RT660 is an autox tire that will quickly get hot and times drop compared to a tire made for continuous lap abuse. If it's Nasa time trials go with the softest. GRM tries to push the RT660 as Falken is their main advertiser but in every test it only does ok and only when they test against tires it will have a chance with.

Xlar

That's great to hear! How long have the RT660s lasted for you so far?

That's very interesting! The RC1 does look like a fantastic tire, do you think it'd get used up on the street driving? The only people I've seen running them either swap them on at the track or trailer their car.

maplewood

iTrader: (2)

I've done some street driving on NT01's (maybe 100 miles total), they are similar enough to the RC1's. I would not recommend the RC1/NT01/Toyo RR "endurance 100tw" type tires if you're doing 8k street miles. I think you'll end up burning through an awful lot of cash that way.

I've used the tires mentioned above plus the RS4's which I've been using at open lapping days. They've handled it well so far, at a track in the desert, haven't noticed them getting greasy and falling off much. I don't take my car on the street anymore but they almost have to last a lot longer than an RC1 will on the street.

poormxdad

Do you plan to trailer the 225s to and from the track? I did exactly that for a several years with one of those 4X4' Harbor Freight trailers. I used the ECS as a travel tire, and when the track was wet. My favorite track tire is the NT01--it seems to last forever--but my fastest times came on e new set of Nankang AR-1s. Neither are 200 TW. I have a set of 225 RS4s on Nines that I have been using for one day events where I don't want to change tires if it rains. The RS4s do well on track in the dry, but I haven't had to run them in the wet.

Xlar

That matches up with my expectations, the 100tw tires wouldn't hold up to street driving very well. My ratio would end up being 100ish track miles to 400ish highway miles getting there and back. So those highway miles could wear quite fast since I wouldn't really be getting much heat into them.

Good to know about the RS4, they seem like a good option!

Sadly I don't have space for a trailer so I would be swapping the 225s onto my Miata, driving to the track, around the track, and then back home on them. All my normal driving would be done on the 205 ECS. Would be about 100ish miles on the track to about 400 highway miles driving there and back.

wquade

I've been doing HPDE in my car for about a year and have done a similar amount of events to you. I also started with the Yokohama V701 (cheap, easy to get, and would work well on the street if I didn't end up liking HPDE). I wore through them pretty quick and moved on to better things.

I'm currently on a set of Hankook RS4 tires I bought earlier in the year (225/45R15 on a 15x9). I've done about 10 hours of track driving, maybe a few hundred street miles, and maybe 30 autocross runs on them (they are not good at autocross due to how long they take to get temperature in them). They have around 4-5/32nd of tread left at this point. They seem to be wearing more slowly as time goes on (and not being quite as quick as they were when brand new, but still quicker than ECS/V701 on the track). They take a good part of a lap to get grippy, especially longitudinal grip, but once they're warm they are good. I've had no issues with full 20 minute sessions pushing as hard as I can lap after lap even on 90+ degree days with these tires.

I also have a set of Continental ECS tires (205/50R15 on 15x8) that I use on the street, and for wet events. Great for normal driving. The RS4 haven't been too bad when I've used them in the wet, as long as you can get temperature in them and you don't run into puddles they work.

I'm planning to get into time trials, and wanted a tire better suited for autocross, so I just picked up a set of Bridgestone RE-71RS (205/50R15 on a 15x8) and look forward to using them on the track for the first time this weekend. I have a tire trailer so I'll probably still primarily use the RS4 for most sessions that aren't timed.

Since I haven't been doing HPDE for very long I haven't experienced any of the other tires mentioned in this thread. I've heard good things about the performance and longevity of the NT01, but I'm not entirely sure how they compare to the RS4 in terms of longevity and performance, but they do hold up well to continuous lapping.

ehodder

225 Hankook R-S4 on a 15x9 should be the answer for keeping HPDE fun and low cost, and the highway miles shouldn't do the R-S4s much harm. 205 Conti ECS for street and rain.

I ran 205 Maxxis RC-1s and 195 Hankook R-S4s last year - RC-1s were just a touch faster (maybe 1/2 second per minute) and felt a little stiffer and more linear on turn-in. Wore a little faster but not much, they were a great tire when trailering.

This year I have 205 Conti ECS and 205 Cont ECF, ECF around 2 seconds faster per minute, very similar to the R-S4 but maybe a little less responsive on turn-in.

Picked up a set of one-session 225 R-S4s for next year, IIRC Emilio has suggested that going from the 195 to the 225 nearly doubles tire life on a stock power Miata.

Others may disagree, but unless there are trophies involved I'll stay away from the Super 200s and use the money I save on more seat time or safety gear!

Xlar

Very impressive life on those RS4s, that sounds exactly like what I'm looking for in a tire!

I really appreciate your input! Really helpful to hear a real world comparison between the RS4 and the ECF. Doubling the life from 195 to 225 will make a huge difference to the overall cost of track days

LeoNA

I drive to button and laguna from slo on rivals. I have driven to laguna a few times on 40tw tires with no problem. The RS4’s & R1R’s wear well, might be good for 2-3 track days early and then 4-5kmi street depending on your alignment. The best tires that I have used are the 225-45 rival 1.5s. I now have two sets of 8” wheels, one with 205 ecs and the other with the 225 bfg’s. The 8’s are perfect for the 225 and too big for the 205. The stretch look is cool, until you curb your wheel. Although it might be faster for atox or very tight tracks. A 205 on a light 7” wheel feels very nimble.

Gee Emm

Wear is one thing, heat cycles are another.

Depending on the tyre, some of them can go off with a few heat cycles, others are more resilient and can still turn fast times when the tread wears off. If being consistently quick on a limited tyre budget is a priority you want the latter.

I'll leave comment on particular tyres' abilities in this area to others better versed in what your tyre market provides.

Fireindc

iTrader: (13)

I've got 5 track days and lots of driving on my rt660s. They have held up very well, but as others have said they are actually not the best track tire. They overheat after a few laps and fall off hard.

That said, they definitely haven't worn out quickly. I'm definitely going to be trying something that holds up to the heat better for my next set.

rjacobs

Ive been happy with the Nankang NR-2S on my ND. Ive got about 400 track miles and 200 street miles on them and they are wearing really well.

On track they will run a 20-25 minute session without getting greasy even in 100+ degree Texas weather... Very impressed with them for the price. Friend drove my car at Hallett a few weeks ago and he said he really liked them, but they took longer to come up to temp vs. his 660's. I always thought they were good after about half a lap, but he thought maybe 3/4 of a lap.

Xlar

Good to hear about the rival 1.5s, I will have to keep those in mind. Interesting your experience of the 8" vs 9" wide wheels. I've just assumed that everyone is running 225s on 9"!

Definitely my main concern is tire life over going fast. I'm in a Miata at a HPDE day, my focus is on learning to drive better/faster not having the fastest car at the track!

Interesting! Overheating after just a few laps is very unfortunate. I think that's a good reason for me to avoid the RT660s.

Sadly it doesn't look like the Nankang NR-2S is available in 225/45R15. I'll have to look into some of their other tires and see how they compare. I don't think taking a lap or so to heat up will be a big deal, I generally take it easier my first lap out each session to get back in the groove.

rjacobs

They surely do have it in 225/45/15...

Phils has it(well out of stock anyway).

G2Perf has them and shows in stock for $120 per tire.

Xlar

I have managed to acquire a lightly used set of 225/45R15 Hankook RS4s with 15x9 Konig Dekagram wheels. Thank you everyone for your help!

norcal

Any feedback or lessons learned from your switch to the RS4s? I am looking to possibly switch to the 195 RS4 on 15x8.

Xlar

Thanks for asking! I've done 1 weekend with about 5hrs on the RS4. Short review: very impressed.

Longer review:
I knew they would have more grip than my previous Continental ECS or the Yokohama v701 that I ran first on my track days. I carried quite a bit more speed through each corner. They also held up crazy well to the heat. I found that the ECS would get greasy after 3-4 laps at Thunderhill West. The RS4 was 100% solid the entire 20min session. My weekend was with OnGrid running both the East and West track so throughout the day it was 20min on East, 20 min break, 20 min West, 40 min break and then repeat and the RS4 never skipped a beat. For context several other cars had issues with tires de-laminating as their tires didn't get a chance to cool down between sessions. One car had the entire outside tread on his Michelin PS4S de-laminate!

The biggest surprise that I had was that they squeal when you're right at the edge of grip and that when they slide they don't drop off in grip too dramatically and the slides are easy to catch. The ECS I found was very quiet which made it tough to be confident when the grip level is changing! I also found it very, very hard to catch slides with the ECS whereas I found it surprisingly easy with the RS4. This aditional confidence along with the additional grip let me push quite a bit harder. I dropped about 1.8s off my PB (1:35.5 to 1:33.8) even though several of my breaking zones where way off due to the additional speed I was carrying into the corner. I think I have quite a bit of time left in it though so take my times with a grain of salt, hahaha.

Over the 5hrs I wore 1/32 off 3 tires and 1.5/32 of the passenger front. That was the tire that all the cars hit the hardest since the majority of the time was spent going CCW around the courses. So tons of life left in them

norcal

Good to hear, appreciate the write up! Wish I was at the Ongrid weekend, sounds super fun being able to run both tracks like that. Lapping for 20 mins nonstop with minimal drop off sounds very appealing.

Are you by chance in the BRG NB with the wood steering wheel and hardtop? I remember one at West on ECS parked next to me in April. I was in the yellow NB.