yeah- the tire is DOT rated and it should be a second or two faster than the NT01

it will also wear a lot faster than an NT01

Thanks Dcamp. There is mounting pressure in our series to limit the use of "DOT Rated" but not suitable for Highway use tyres in our class.

This would be a great tyre with that in mind by the looks.

Can I also presume from the additional grooves the wet performance is better than the NT01?

Part of the argument is that the hankook and hoosier guys (minimal / zero tread) frequently won't change to a more wet suitable tyre if it is showery rain, they just intend to slow down.....a few of us think this is a good way to have an accident at some point...

I've driven RA1 in a downpour and they did surprisingly good but I was cautious. I'd think the NT01 would be sketchy since they start at 2mm less than the RA1. If you are looking for a dedicated rain tire the R1R would probably be a better choice.

more looking at a dual purpose tyre. obviousley wet weather will never be as a good as a dedicated one.

Unless it is deep standing water i found the NT01 to be pretty good, considering it has minimal grooves.

I presumed by looking at the Rival S grooves AND it is a street legal tyre that the wet weather performance is likely to be even better than NT01.

The RA1 is designed as a rain tire to begin with. It should be shaved if the primary purpose is dry traction.

Bumping this back up again.. Its time time buy tires for this spring/summer, what kind of lifetime should I expect to get out of the Rival S? # of auto x runs, # of 30min HPDE sessions? Would they tolerate being driven to/from the track without running out of heat cycles?

I was going to ask the same question, specifically I'm cross shopping the v720's and rs3 with some bias towards the rival and 720 because they are faster and the price point of the 720 can't be ignored.

Don't forget about the reviews of the V720's regarding delamination after a couple of long sessions. I was really excited about them until I saw that. Hopefully there will be a manufacturing/design revision that will take care of the problem.

Until then, I'll either skip them, stick to short-session driving, or wait til they are available at Discount Tire and warranty them after every track day.

The on track durability is a concern on both the rival and 720 but yes there is certainly more of s concern on the 720. From what little data I've seen it's a tread splice issue on the 720..... May or may not be able to prevent or reduce the issue with frequent rotations. I would also like to know what an extended track stint is..... Big difference in a 30 min session and a chump car run it till it cords approach.

Does not sound like a tread splice issue to me. Federal 595 RSR's have a tread splice issue, but I still bought them because they don't actually fall apart, they just show a little crack :giggle:

From some TireRack reviews:

"both front tires got greasy during an autocross and delaminated down the center"

"Tires all chunked and delaminated in strips between the middle and both outer edges of the tires within 3-4 hours...These may be ok for drivers ed, with cooldown time between 20-30 minute sessions, or street use, but I will not risk purchasing another set even when we run a track that is easier on tires, just not worth the risk"

"I used a set of 6 tires on my NA miata for a period of 10 hours of track time. We changed drivers in the car four times, and other than tire rotation during driver swaps, these tires never got a rest. Before the end of the day, all six tires had prematurely completely delaminated. Do NOT use or consider these tires for any sort of serious track work.I believe what happens is the tire gets hot, and the strip of rubber in the middle of the tire melts right off, sometimes taking the rubber on the edges with it"

FYI, there is a thread here on the V720s: https://www.miataturbo.net/wheels-ti...ho-v720-84873/

I ran them briefly on my wife's NC at FM Summer Camp last year, and found they started to fall off even after a short (7-9 min) session in 95* temps. More info in the thread....

And there's the couple data points that rule the 720 out. Just a balance of wear vs. grip between the RS3 and the rival s

Well I ordered the Rival S, since that was pretty much the only thing available in 225 right now. I might have gone with the RS3 for the wear if it was available

That's my conundrum as well, rival s is in stock and nothing more than "March" for an eta on the rs3.....I could miss two auto x events by the time they get in. If I knew the rival would last through 90 30-45 second auto-x runs and two track days they would last me the season.

Read your thread/s the other day, it's where I first learned of these tires. Thanks for the info!

FWIW tirerack is now showing rs3s in 225/45r15 available 3/10 @ $118 ea

There are rumors that the original Rival will be available at some point this year but Tire Rack doesn't have any confirmed production date from BFG.

Has anyone found what the sweet spot for camber is on these tires that is willing to share? I'm at 3.2 front and 2.7 rear to get started. While we're discussing what tire pressure did you run? I'm planning on aiming for 32 hot.

:party:Using a tire pyrometer-949 Racing

Right....... Just trying to see if anyone was willing to cut down on my learning curve with a new to me tire. I find folks are pretty open with what tire pressures work for them, was hoping it would be the same for tire specific alignment settings.

Too many variables.

Type of competition
Weight
ride height
driving style
NA or NB
wheel width
spring rate
sway bar diameters
toe
rake
power
driving style
surface
ambient temp
surface temp

Before you start listing your params, no one here has a master spreadsheet of all possible combinations. Tire mfrs list cambers but they are worthless as they do not differentiate between strut and unequal length control arms.

You won't learn anything if you aren't sticking a temp probe into the tire. You can take some good guesses and might stumble on something that works but you'l never really know unless you do at least a little data gathering and testing. Or you can just say screw it, -3.0° and worry about other stuff.

Just start somewhere between -2.5 and -4.0° and take temps. Record G and lap times if you can.

Thank you, now I know where you're coming from. Only reason I asked is that Hoosier gives a suggested camber setting to get you started. I'll go with my 3.2/2.7 starting point and tune from there.

I saw this asked but I don't think answered. How many track hours were you getting with these?

Can I get some clarification on the 225/45-15 Rival S variants? Tire Rack currently has that tire in a W81 ZR rating They have on order but have no expected delivery date another version, "V-rated". I'm assuming the latest and greatest autocross compound is that not yet available V-rated tire? I'm basing this on an old tire test article from Grassroots.

I think you're just seeing a typo in the specs or something, there is only one rival S, they just changed the internal construction mid stream with no good way to tell which is which.

No, the V rated one is supposed to start coming out as tires go out of stock after solo nationals. They're stiffer and stuff.

I asked Andy Hollis about this in another thread and he said there was no obvious marking difference..... So maybe that's changed since he got the first set.

I re-read the August Grassroots test and they just referred to them as 2016 Rival S's vs 2015 Rival S's. I can't tell from that if we're talking a running and invisible change, or the new V designation.

In the Maxxis thread there is a comment that the new RivalS has the V rating.

I am looking for additional feedback on these Rival-S tires for street use. I am considering using them on a different (non Miata) weekend sports car that sees about 2k-3k miles a year.

Noise?
Expected life cycle?
Ride quality?

You'll get about 2 years worth of use out of them. Noise, ehh it's a convertible nothing passes up the wind noise. They have a fairly stiff sidewall so not as good as a normal street tire.

You're the completely wrong application for this tire. Grip is so out of this world you can't experience the limits of the car without risking losing you license. I put the stock 14's back on the race car just to have fun on the street.

I did 4-5k street miles on my set last year. Not any noisier than any other max-performance 200tw, certainly not a mud-swamper like the NT01 is. Expect 4-5k miles, far less if you do any track days. Ride quality is fine, street-tire-esque. They are a good low-miles max-effort street tire. I will say that if you can get the RE71R in your sizes, do that instead.

It's not a convertible but I always run with the windows down. I know the tire is not targeted for guys like me but if life cycle is reasonable (1-2 years 5k miles) why not. I primarily drive coastal Hwy 1 through the twisties so grip does equal fun. I tried street driving NT01's. Not to bad when new (bit harsh though) but after a few track days man did they howl.



No RE71R's in my size. Everything else you said sounds perfect.

Thanks to both of you for taking the time to reply.

RE71R
 

It sounds like RE71R is a great tire esp if I might run into occasional wet weather. Im currently using 225/45/15 NT01s on my 949 9 inch wheels. Is there a RE71 tire size that would be appropriate ? I cant seem to locate ie on Tire Rack

Nope...... Which is why the rival is preferred over the re71, the 205 re71 on an 8" wheel is darn close but solidly behind the 225 rival on a 9. If they make an re71 in a 225 it'll trump the rivals, but so far no dice.

"Solidly behind" is too strong a wording. My testing showed the 225 Rival to be less than half a second behind the RE71R. On faster courses, the RE71 would absolutely be faster.