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Old 10-03-2012, 02:03 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by k24madness View Post
While it's not the news we hoped for it is still good news. I spoke to guys who beta tested the tire and loved it. I heard Hoosier R6 grip with RA1 heat cycles.
I'm anxious to see some legitimate data... I've had guys telling me it's testing no faster than a fresh shaved RA1.

Everything I've read/heard has led me to believe that NASA had quite a bit to do with the development of this tire, so it makes perfect sense that those 3 sizes were the first to be released.

205/50ZR15- Spec size for spec miata
225/50ZR15- Spec size for Spec E30/Spec 944
275/35ZR18- Max allowed for American Iron

If it ends up actually being a hoosier competitor I'd expect they'll eventually roll out more sizes, but if it's the same speed as an RA1 I wouldn't be surprised if they don't do much past these 3 sizes. The RA1 is still the spec rain tire for SM so it isn't going out of production soon... they've already got molds for it in all the current sizes and it's a better all-purpose tire that should appeal to a broader customer base than the RR.
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Old 10-19-2012, 06:38 PM   #22
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Right now only a 205/50R15 and a 225/50R15 Toyo RR. (A 275/35R18 too, if you can make it fit).

It's a great tire with close to or right at Hoosier R6 lap times, with more consistency and durability. Less $$ too........
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:05 PM   #23
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Toyo needs to step up their contingency game. I'm all for cheaper, longer-lasting tires, but I won 4 Hoosiers last weekend.
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:36 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Toyo needs to step up their contingency game. I'm all for cheaper, longer-lasting tires, but I won 4 Hoosiers last weekend.

And that is a wonderful thing .....

Toyo's contingency pays a little further out the more cars that are in the class...

Not bad just different!
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:42 PM   #25
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Spoke to the Toyo rep at the 25hr. He said the 225/45/15 should be coming by the end of 2013. The bad news is the 245/40/15 will be the last size made. He estimates 2014/2015. The good news is they are looking at doing a 275/35/15 size.
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Old 12-14-2012, 03:17 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Every 3rd Miata at any race in the country is running on 225/45/15. I don't see why anyone would not introduce this size.
Part of the reason is business. 205/50/15 is the SM size and that is the one they will sell the most of by far. So of course they are going to make a tool/mold for that. Making a 225/50/15 is easy because (generally) all they have to do is add a 20mm spacer in the mold. So one tool, two tire sizes.

225/45/15 (generally) requires a whole other tool, and therefor the investment to make a 205/50 and a 225/45 is much, much higher.

This is my very basic understanding from speaking with tire engineers, and this is my guess as to why the 225/50/15 size is made by more than one manufacturer, and not the 225/45
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Old 12-14-2012, 03:29 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
Part of the reason is business. 205/50/15 is the SM size and that is the one they will sell the most of by far. So of course they are going to make a tool/mold for that. Making a 225/50/15 is easy because (generally) all they have to do is add a 20mm spacer in the mold. So one tool, two tire sizes.
Huh? The 225/50 is not only 20mm wider, but ~1" taller as well. I sincerely doubt it's the same mold with a 20mm spacer.

Quote:
This is my very basic understanding from speaking with tire engineers, and this is my guess as to why the 225/50/15 size is made by more than one manufacturer, and not the 225/45
Nitto, Hoosier, Hankook, and Toyo all make a 225/45. Not just one manufacturer.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:06 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Huh? The 225/50 is not only 20mm wider, but ~1" taller as well. I sincerely doubt it's the same mold with a 20mm spacer.



Nitto, Hoosier, Hankook, and Toyo all make a 225/45. Not just one manufacturer.
I'm just passing on my convoluted understanding of what I was told by some tire engineers when I asked them why they made a 205/50/15 and a 225/50/15 but not a 225/45/15.

Do Nitto, Hankook and Toyo make R6/R1 competitors in 225/45/15 sizes? I was only thinking of DOT slicks. Maybe Hankook does but I don't really see that many people running Hankooks anymore...
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:37 PM   #29
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Newsflash:
205 x .5 = 102.5
225 x .45 = 101.25

If Toyo decided to use a 20mm spacer, and change nothing else, the 205/50/15 and 225/???/15 will have the same height sidewall and same roll-out. If the suggested "spacer" **** is true, we can run the 225/50/15 tire. Someone should grab the two sizes and compare.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:52 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
Do Nitto, Hankook and Toyo make R6/R1 competitors in 225/45/15 sizes? I was only thinking of DOT slicks. Maybe Hankook does but I don't really see that many people running Hankooks anymore...
225s offered in a Toyo RA1, Nitto NT-01, Hankook RS3 and Z214 C51/C71, Hoosier A6/R6. The C51/71 is closest to an R6, but ultimately not as good (the C71s cliff very badly like a real Hoosier road race slick).
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:48 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Newsflash:
205 x .5 = 102.5
225 x .45 = 101.25

If Toyo decided to use a 20mm spacer, and change nothing else, the 205/50/15 and 225/???/15 will have the same height sidewall and same roll-out. If the suggested "spacer" **** is true, we can run the 225/50/15 tire. Someone should grab the two sizes and compare.
Are u saying 102.5=101.25mm???

It's 1" height difference.
(225/25.4)x0.5x2+15=~23.9"
(225/25.4)x0.45x2+15=~23"
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:57 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjr50 View Post
Are u saying 102.5=101.25mm???

It's 1" height difference.
(225/25.4)x0.5x2+15=~23.9"
(225/25.4)x0.45x2+15=~23"
Efini says the 205/50/15 and 225/50/15 molds are the same, but one has a spacer. If that were true, then regardless of what is written on the tire, it will fit our cars because the 225/50/15 will not be the true size.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:06 AM   #33
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Again, I know almost nothing about tire manufacturing.

Maybe, I'm mis-remembering the conversation. Maybe it was that they might be able to make a 225/45/15 with the 205/50 mold by just adding a 20mm spacer, that might make more sense, since the overall heights are much closer.

Anyway, back the point of all of this: The business case of 225/45/15 r-compounds isn't as good as the 205/50 and 225/50 and that is why there aren't as many tires available in that size.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:08 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
225s offered in a Toyo RA1, Nitto NT-01, Hankook RS3 and Z214 C51/C71, Hoosier A6/R6. The C51/71 is closest to an R6, but ultimately not as good (the C71s cliff very badly like a real Hoosier road race slick).
So the answer is...no.

Only real DOT R slicks available are Hoosier and Hankook, and again not many C51s and C71s sold anymore.
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:49 PM   #35
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I hope they keep the price fair. These are promising!
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:51 PM   #36
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:26 PM   #37
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Emilio, can you comment on where you rank this tire compared to RS3, NT01, R6, A6? You ran these at the 25hr correct?
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:32 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post
Emilio, can you comment on where you rank this tire compared to RS3, NT01, R6, A6? You ran these at the 25hr correct?
Not as simple as a single digit ranking. Degradation curve, number of heat cycles, steering response, sensitivity to heat, price and of course lap times. In short they are pretty fast, seem to last a long time and are not too expensive. Somewhere between an NT01and an R6 in terms of speed.
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:52 PM   #39
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How many heat cycles are most people seeing out of these tires? I run 205 hoosier R6 for NASA events, but my track day setup for the last year or two has been 205 NT01s on 14" E30 weaves. Cheap and plenty fun, but I always waste a few sessions of a NASA weekend getting back up to speed with the Hoosier, or just end up not using the tire to it's full potential. I want to switch to something that's closer to 205 R6 grip for practice but with good enough life to not break the bank. Currently debating between the 205 RR or a 15" 205 or 225 NT01.
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:44 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by jpreston View Post
How many heat cycles are most people seeing out of these tires? I run 205 hoosier R6 for NASA events, but my track day setup for the last year or two has been 205 NT01s on 14" E30 weaves. Cheap and plenty fun, but I always waste a few sessions of a NASA weekend getting back up to speed with the Hoosier, or just end up not using the tire to it's full potential. I want to switch to something that's closer to 205 R6 grip for practice but with good enough life to not break the bank. Currently debating between the 205 RR or a 15" 205 or 225 NT01.
RR is usually about 1.5s faster than the same size NT01. Usually just under 1s slower than an R6. We find the RR to still be fast enough way out to 10+ cycles. Much like the RA1 in that respect.

It sucks that NASA PT rules favor the softest compounds so much. A 205 RR is nearly a full second quicker than a 225 NT01 and 2 points less. The R6 is only 1 more point and as I mentioned earlier almost a full second faster yet.

I wish there was a bigger points gap between compounds so we could competitively run cheaper, longer lasting tires. Not gonna happen though so yeah, I'm on SM6's or A6's when it matters just like everyone else at the front.
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