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Old 06-20-2015, 09:14 PM   #1381
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I want to say I'm right at 14 or 15 at idle, I can't remember off the top of my head what it looks like in the "cranking" part of the table. Is there a separate cranking timing table someplace? I'll have to look. Anyway, I'll give 10 a try and see what happens. Thanks!
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Old 06-20-2015, 09:58 PM   #1382
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I'm not sure if these are what you are looking for, but it appears that I have a full set: (pic removed)
What I need are the ones that go into the head. They look like small rubber *****. I believe what you show there are the grommets that go into the fuel rail. Not sure if I need those or not, or if I already have some.

Still, the offer stands on the ****. You pay for shipping and I'll do the best I can to hook you up. Then you can pretend I know what the hell I'm talking about when I post.
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:00 PM   #1383
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Kicking back against the starter. Almost like I've got too much cranking advance or something.
Check your cranking advance, and also Cranking RPM, and your timing table at low RPMs.

What may be happening is you have the cranking advance at say, 10*, and RPM at 350. So once you hit 351 RPM, it goes to your timing map where you have 20*, and it kicks back as that's too much. So check all 3, one of these 3 is almost for sure the problem.

At 350 in my timing map, I have 14*, and up to 18* by 700, both at 100kPa.

So for me, it's 10* until 350, then 14 tapering to 18*. Give that a try, I bet it solves your issue.
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:09 PM   #1384
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My seems to kick back when the battery voltage is low (say, below 11 volts). Both the Hydra and the MS3 did it, the stock ECU doesn't.

FWIW, my VE table looks like this right now. The Walbro is overwhelming the stock pressure regulator at idle, though, so I wouldn't read too much into the idle VE numbers.



--Ian
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:10 PM   #1385
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My seems to kick back when the battery voltage is low (say, below 11 volts). Both the Hydra and the MS3 did it, the stock ECU doesn't....
--Ian
FWIW, my numbers I posted don't kickback at 8.00 V. I tuned them with a dead battery. Learned to do that in college on the FSAE car, since it always had a dead battery....
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:17 PM   #1386
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Is there a separate cranking timing table someplace? I'll have to look. Anyway, I'll give 10 a try and see what happens. Thanks!
Yes: Ignition Settings / Ignition Options... on the right side near the Cranking Dwell.

Patsmx5's view of the settings is correct: (he uses 14 in the after-start cells, I use 15)

EDIT: the 18* will be needed at a lower kPa than 100 as, once the engine fires, it moves into vacuum. A log will show you the path of a typical after-start movement of the operating point of MAP vs RPM.

Last edited by DNMakinson; 06-21-2015 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 06-22-2015, 03:31 PM   #1387
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"Cold" start this morning was not that bad at all. It was not OEM but it also was not terrible. I set my closed loop idle table to a flat 1200rpm and just let it sit and autotune WUE
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:11 PM   #1388
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Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Check your cranking advance, and also Cranking RPM, and your timing table at low RPMs.

What may be happening is you have the cranking advance at say, 10*, and RPM at 350. So once you hit 351 RPM, it goes to your timing map where you have 20*, and it kicks back as that's too much. So check all 3, one of these 3 is almost for sure the problem.
This makes sense, I'll take a look. Cranking Advance (under Ignition Settings -> Ignition Options/Wheel Decoder) is set to 2, Cranking RPM is 300.
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At 350 in my timing map, I have 14*, and up to 18* by 700, both at 100kPa.

So for me, it's 10* until 350, then 14 tapering to 18*. Give that a try, I bet it solves your issue.
Neat. So did you add a row for 350 to your advance table or is this buried somewhere else?

Also, these guys are in the mix as well, though I'm not sure if they are running during cranking? I can only assume they are, otherwise there would be little point.


So if my brain is functioning correctly on 4 hours of sleep, I'm starting at 5 and then immediately jumping to like 14 as soon as it starts to catch? That's quite a jump. I hit 16 @ 1500rpm on my advance table but I'm not sure how quickly it transitions. I might just make that minimum cell 10 and see what happens. I can only assume vac is rather high during cranking, but I guess that probably gets fubar'd by whatever the IACV is doing.

Such fun, many settings, wow.
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:16 PM   #1389
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This makes sense, I'll take a look. Cranking Advance (under Ignition Settings -> Ignition Options/Wheel Decoder) is set to 2, Cranking RPM is 300.
Neat. So did you add a row for 350 to your advance table or is this buried somewhere else?

Also, these guys are in the mix as well, though I'm not sure if they are running during cranking? I can only assume they are, otherwise there would be little point.


So if my brain is functioning correctly on 4 hours of sleep, I'm starting at 5 and then immediately jumping to like 14 as soon as it starts to catch? That's quite a jump. I hit 16 @ 1500rpm on my advance table but I'm not sure how quickly it transitions. I might just make that minimum cell 10 and see what happens. I can only assume vac is rather high during cranking, but I guess that probably gets fubar'd by whatever the IACV is doing.

Such fun, many settings, wow.
My cold start settings are:

-40*F = 6*
-20= 5
0 = 4
20 = 3
40 = 2
60 = 1
80 = 0


Ignition table X-axis is 350, 700, 1200, 1500, ....

Ignition advances to 20* in vacuum at 350 RPM by 50 kPa. 20* by 90 kPa in 700 RPM.

I use a separate idle control via timing so I idle at 10*, but as soon as I touch the throttle it jumps to the map which is 20*. So good startup, and good low end torque, and solid idle too.
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:18 PM   #1390
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Also cranking timing is cranking timing, no other corrections are applied. Once you exit the cranking RPM, then the table + all other corrections come into play.
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:27 PM   #1391
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I appreciate the input, thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
I use a separate idle control via timing so I idle at 10*, but as soon as I touch the throttle it jumps to the map which is 20*
That actually sounds like a much better way to do this. Where would I find that table?
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:31 PM   #1392
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I appreciate the input, thanks!


That actually sounds like a much better way to do this. Where would I find that table?
It will take you a while to tune it and make it work right. Do you have a/c? Does your MS control your idle valve?

My setup does have a/c, but the stock ECU controls the idle valve. It makes tuning a little different.

Still, to use it, in Tunerstudio, under Start/Idle, click Idle/Advance settings
Then Idle advance On, and setup the map on teh right. I just have mine set to 10* at all values right now. When the A/C is active, I have it step up the timing at higher MAP values (because map goes up with a/c on).

I also use "Idle RPM timing correction" and tune it so I can have idle control by MS with spark. Gives me a rock solid idle, even with a big SC with a ton of throttled volume, my car dips about 60-80 RPM and then goes to target. Very respectable.
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:58 PM   #1393
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Dunno if it helps G, but here is my crank settings.

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Old 06-23-2015, 12:16 PM   #1394
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Winning! Thanks Jeff, always good to have something to compare it to

The city has decided in its infinite wisdom to rip up the services under the street, so they are trenching between the gutter and the center of the street this week. I'm sure this will make it impossible to get the Miata out of the driveway until this weekend, so progress will be slow.
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Old 06-23-2015, 12:18 PM   #1395
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No prob. I finally have no issue giving people my settings since the tuner ripped through mine and changed it to the correct ones.
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Old 06-23-2015, 12:19 PM   #1396
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<p>
Quote:
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Winning! Thanks Jeff, always good to have something to compare it to <img alt="" src="images/smilies/biggthumpup.gif" title="Biggthumpup" /> The city has decided in its infinite wisdom to rip up the services under the street, so they are trenching between the gutter and the center of the street this week. I'm sure this will make it impossible to get the Miata out of the driveway until this weekend, so progress will be slow.
</p><p>Gives you enough time to install the turbo!</p>
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Old 06-23-2015, 12:23 PM   #1397
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Seriously Rosenthal? It took you 7 days to process and ship the order I placed last week? Then charge me $21 to ship $100 worth of parts that will take another 7 days to get here?

Seriously, someone find me a west coast based Mazda dealer with web based ordering. This is getting ridiculous.
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Old 06-23-2015, 12:24 PM   #1398
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<p>Mine is edwinmay.com <img alt="" src="http://www.miataturbo.net/images/smilies/smile.gif" title="" /></p><p><br />[size=&quot;1&quot;]did not realize that was an actual website[/size]</p>
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Old 06-23-2015, 12:27 PM   #1399
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I agree G, I love everything about Rosenthal except their shipping times and prices. Can't find a west coast distributor...
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Old 06-23-2015, 12:28 PM   #1400
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<p></p><p>Gives you enough time to install the turbo!</p>
I still need to get the pan on the thing, then I can worry about installing it.
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<p>Mine is edwinmay.com <img alt="" src="http://www.miataturbo.net/images/smilies/smile.gif" title="" /></p><p><br />[size=&quot;1&quot;]did not realize that was an actual website[/size]</p>
That took me a second...
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