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Old 05-21-2016, 11:55 AM   #181
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Is the real issue not that there is a giant generational gap, but rather that the jerks have a much louder bullhorn and public forum through social media?
That's the question which keeps me up at night, truthfully.

In the late 60s and early 70s, the hippies became a huge cultural movement. This was in no small part aided and amplified by the development of small, portable news cameras, the innovation of the "eyewitness news" format which slowly displaced magazine-style broadcast journalism, decreased barriers to access to print and radio by small groups, and the coincidence of their message with a large and well-televised foreign war.

And yet, if you survey every person who was of college age during the hippie era, you find that relatively few of them ever marched in protest or burned their draft cards. Most of them just evolved into the yuppies of the 1980s.

So is that what we're seeing here? It's quite likely. What seems to be new, however, is the access that they have to sway mainstream political opinion. That's worrysome.
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Old 05-21-2016, 12:52 PM   #182
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Is the real issue not that there is a giant generational gap, but rather that the jerks have a much louder bullhorn and public forum through social media?
That's certainly how I feel about it. I only met a few people who classify as such during college in the early '10s. They weren't even that bad so maybe it's more prevalent at liberal arts colleges. Even then I feel the whole topic gets enormous attention relative to the number of individuals who act this way. The result is a moniker for an entire generation. It is important to remember that plenty of people differ in opinion from the spokespeople of Generation Wuss. We see them in those Milo videos, on the internet trying to fend off SJWs, and even in this very thread. That should be reassuring as it clearly shows not everyone is on the Wuss bandwagon. It's easy to lampoon the whole generation, but there are many from it who would sympathize with your arguments. They simply don't loudly whine to their dean and to anyone who listens on social media about it... yet. News outlets pay them no mind, that much is true.

There are millennials who should take a hard look at themselves more frequently and question what they see, but proportionally I don't think it's as prevalent as people make it seem. Many people are the polar opposite in my experience.

Patterns repeat generation to generation. The only difference here is that those annoying fringe individuals are getting the podium more- thanks interwebs! More information of all types is available to us lol. Much of the "Back in my day" nostalgia about how things used to be better typically ignores plenty of negatives on [insert any given topic here] from those same time periods.

No doubt, we have some new challenges to address regarding everything in this thread, but to imply we are undergoing a black and white societal change for the worse is misguided. What I find funny is that large corporations (news outlets) appear to be propagating these messages and ideas. Intriguing....
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:17 PM   #183
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As I write this, I'm on a work assignment in Pforzheim, Germany. Pforzheim was on the receiving end of a large RAF "Area Bombing" raid in early 1945. The raid lasted 22 minutes from first bomb to the last. It destroyed 83% of the buildings in the town, killed 17,600 townspeople, wounded thousands and displaced the remaining 30,000. An Allied propaganda newsreel of the time celebrated the "Death of a City" . . . in 22 minutes.

Pforzhein was an ancient Roman settlement (the Romans could "ford" a river here). In the following 2 millenia, it became a center of jewelry and watchmaking (and aircraft instrument manufacturing -- which is why I'm here now and which put them on the target list then). By all accounts, it was filled with beautiful architecture of the type I've been seeing in Italy and Switzerland for the past couple of weeks. Today, I went for a jog along the river trying to find some of this architecture. I went a long way, and finally started to see some homes that looked older than the British raid. For the most part, the city is ugly -- mid-1960's "modern." It is scarred.

People are friendly here, they don't seemed bothered by the history, younger people may not know it or care about it. Older people seem to appreciate the "American." But I feel anguished here. It's really disturbing to me. Although not nearly the same scale, when I look at this city I see the Basra Road through my HUD in 1991. It seems the greatest brutalities are reserved for the end of struggles, once the outcome is clear. The eventual victors redouble efforts to force the end, the soon-to-be losers make haste to finish their work. But, at least when wars end this way, they end.

I thought this was worth saying in this thread. Truth be told, I'm grateful that we consider things like "Generation Wuss" a big issue. We're lucky.

Memorial Day is coming up. Please remember. And talk to a Millenial about it. Don't forget that many members of "Generation Wuss" have and are answering the call in difficult times. They'll bear their scars.

Last edited by hornetball; 05-23-2016 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:34 PM   #184
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Pforzhein was an ancient Roman settlement (the Romans could "ford" a river here). In the following 2 millenia, it became a center of jewelry and watchmaking (and aircraft instrument manufacturing -- which is why I'm here now and which put them on the target list then). By all accounts, it was filled with beautiful architecture of the type I've been seeing in Italy and Switzerland for the past couple of weeks. Today, I went for a jog along the river trying to find some of this architecture. I went a long way, but finally started to see some homes that looked older than the British raid. For the most part, the city is ugly -- mid-1960's "modern." It is scarred.

People are friendly here, they don't seemed bothered by the history, younger people may not know it or care about it. Older people seem to appreciate the "American." But I feel anguished here. It's really disturbing to me. Although not nearly the same scale, when I look at this city I see the Basra Road through my HUD in 1991. It seems the greatest brutalities are reserved for the end of struggles, once the outcome is clear. The eventual victors redouble efforts to force the end, the soon-to-be losers make haste to finish their work. But, at least when wars end this way, they end.
I had much the same experience when I spent a month working at the Meyer Werft shipyards in Papenburg, up on the river Ems.

Like Pforzhein, it was a major manufacturing center during WWII, and host to the largest shipyards in all of Europe. And while I was aware that the city had a rich history dating back for centuries, it took a while for it to really click for me that none of the buildings there seemed older than the 1950s. It dawned on me at last when I had a few hours to kill and was browsing through the showroom / museum at the yards. It featured a complete, linear chronology of the entire history of shipbuilding in the area, with little wooden models of every major vessel constructed since the first little sheep-carrier built by Willm Rolf Meyer in 1795.

But from 1930 to about 1955, there was a gap. Not an empty space; the timeline simply skipped straight over that period. And that's when it hit me. The reason that there are no old buildings is because Allied bombers completely erased the town of Papenburg from the map during the war. They just made it go away.


Anyway... The people were exceedingly friendly, young and old, and very accommodating. Even when I went into a little tiny hardware store in the central part of town, asking in very bad German for a soldering iron from a couple of middle-aged men who spoke very poor English, they were quite happy to help me, and in fact one of them actually took me down the street and pointed to the store where I could buy one.


Relevance:

Restaurant servers in Germany are paid a reasonable wage (and no tipping), however they are also quite competent. At the end of your meal, the server quickly tallies up your total in pencil on a notepad, you pay in cash, and they make change right there at the table, doing the math in their head. No calculators, no tablets, no cash registers. They are paid a lot, however they are also worth a lot.

Last edited by Joe Perez; 05-23-2016 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:42 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
As I write this, I'm on a work assignment in Pforzheim, Germany. Pforzheim was on the receiving end of a large RAF "Area Bombing" raid in early 1945. The raid lasted 22 minutes from first bomb to the last. It destroyed 83% of the buildings in the town, killed 17,600 townspeople, wounded thousands and displaced the remaining 30,000. An Allied propaganda newsreel of the time celebrated the "Death of a City" . . . in 22 minutes.

Pforzhein was an ancient Roman settlement (the Romans could "ford" a river here). In the following 2 millenia, it became a center of jewelry and watchmaking (and aircraft instrument manufacturing -- which is why I'm here now and which put them on the target list then). By all accounts, it was filled with beautiful architecture of the type I've been seeing in Italy and Switzerland for the past couple of weeks. Today, I went for a jog along the river trying to find some of this architecture. I went a long way, but finally started to see some homes that looked older than the British raid. For the most part, the city is ugly -- mid-1960's "modern." It is scarred.

People are friendly here, they don't seemed bothered by the history, younger people may not know it or care about it. Older people seem to appreciate the "American." But I feel anguished here. It's really disturbing to me. Although not nearly the same scale, when I look at this city I see the Basra Road through my HUD in 1991. It seems the greatest brutalities are reserved for the end of struggles, once the outcome is clear. The eventual victors redouble efforts to force the end, the soon-to-be losers make haste to finish their work. But, at least when wars end this way, they end.

I thought this was worth saying in this thread. Truth be told, I'm grateful that we consider things like "Generation Wuss" a big issue. We're lucky.

Memorial Day is coming up. Please remember. And talk to a Millenial about it.
I used to travel to Pforzheim a few times a year on business. Stayed in either the Hotel Residenz or Parkhotel (down by the river). They never showed much bitterness to Americans but my friends told me the older folks still had animosity towards "Brits" because they felt the extent of the raid was uncalled for. I used to go to Garmisch-Partenkirchen as well usually during the same trips and had a lot of older friends who's relatives would show me around places where they, as children, would be hidden in air raid shelters during bombings. One of the small chapels I would visit had pictures of all the German war dead (from the area) and memorials to them. It was strange for me to notice the vast proportion of them who died on the Eastern Front vs the rest of Europe.

It was strange looking at it from the side of the vanquished.
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:48 PM   #186
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Restaurant servers in Germany are paid a reasonable wage (and no tipping), however they are also quite competent. At the end of your meal, the server quickly tallies up your total in pencil on a notepad, you pay in cash, and they make change right there at the table, doing the math in their head. No calculators, no tablets, no cash registers. They are paid a lot, however they are also worth a lot.
It's also considered good form to round up to the nearest Euro for the server (who, in the smallest places may be a relative to the owner). Even better form to not use a credit card (for those ever frugal Germans).
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:20 PM   #187
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It was strange looking at it from the side of the vanquished.
And there's the rub.

It would have been quite easy for the German people to adopt the position of a victim-state. God know they'd been fucked in every available hole by both their own government and by vengeful Allies. At the wars end, they had less than nothing. Their country's infrastructure and economy were virtually nonexistent, added to which the fact that the Potsdam Conference levied upon them the obligation to pay war reparations to Allied nations which would not be fully satisfied until the 21st century.

But they didn't.

They didn't whine and complain, and say "Oh, poor us. We have been unfairly victimized." And they certainly could have.

Instead, they hunkered down and rebuilt the country into what is today the shining star of the EU, and one of the most powerful economies on earth. A foreigner visiting Germany today does not see victims. They see a nation which is the height of civility, strong and proud, yet also humble and considerate.


I wish that we could all be Germany.
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:28 PM   #188
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I'm at the Parkhotel.

My co-worker is back in Italy. He's as British as they come. Funny as heck but prone to saying the wrong thing sometimes (he usually gets away with it).

Speaking of Eastern Front, 20M dead in Russia . . . .

1940 Populations: Russia ~ 110M USA ~ 130M
2015 Populations: Russia ~ 140M USA ~ 325M

We must be doing something right. 2 oceans is only part of it.

As for us being Germany, I'm actually struck by how German US culture is. It's not talked about that much, and was pursposefully hidden last century, and we seem to celebrate other immigrants more -- but if you look around at a lot of the people and consider that the US is a nation of hotdogs, hamburgers and beer, Germany feels more like "home" than anyplace else in Europe, really.
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:40 PM   #189
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They didn't whine and complain, and say "Oh, poor us. We have been unfairly victimized."
Well, they did the first time. But they collectively learned from that and look at them now. An object lesson for others?

The "vengeful Allies" (USSR excluded) also took a different approach the second time.
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:44 PM   #190
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Instead, they hunkered down and rebuilt the country into what is today the shining star of the EU, and one of the most powerful economies on earth. A foreigner visiting Germany today does not see victims. They see a nation which is the height of civility, strong and proud, yet also humble and considerate.
True enough. The Marshall plan was the big difference from the aftermath of WW1 vs. WW2 and kept another 'strong man' from emerging like what happened in the 1935 time frame because of the economic problems left over from WW1 (and the general global depression). Probably the single thing that puzzled most Germans with respect to American physche. Like wtf, they kicked the **** out of us and now want to help us????

I was always amazed how Germany manages to stay a manufacturing based economy and be a 'net exporter' of goods vs other much larger countries.

EDIT: Curious so looked at it. Marshall plan cost = $130B in 2016 dollars vs Iraq + Afghanistan rebuild (US portion, as of 2013) = $160B+

EDIT 2: We used to have a 'global sales meeting" which basically meant all the field engineering techs would get together in Germany one day/year from all over the world. It was held in English and we were basically brought up to speed by the home based product folks. Typically heavy on the engineering and light on the sales speak ('cause to a German engineer they can't fathom why anyone would want anything else so no need for "sales").

During one rather drunken evening at one of the local Biergartens a similarly drunken Frenchman informed me why the French didn't like us Americans... While myself (the only American) and a shitload of other guys sat around listening he told me we "should've invaded Europe through Portugal up through the Pyrenees instead of bombing the **** out of France. In other words, **** the rest of Europe... My German colleagues looked, shrugged the shoulders as if to say; "we would've given you back France anyway if you asked and now you know why".

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Old 05-23-2016, 05:47 PM   #191
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I'm at the Parkhotel.
Cool enough. Kind of dull bar scene IIRC but the river area is nice this time of year and there's a few good biergartens around (duh... Germany). How long, I'll try and dig up some good restaurants if you have transport.
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Old 05-24-2016, 08:20 PM   #192
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If the Germans had not invaded Russia, they could have had all of the rest of Europe, Britain, the Middle East and all of Africa. The Allies wouldn't have had a chance without Germany tying up so many forces and resources on the Eastern front.

America lost over 400,000 soldiers in both fronts combined. Germany lost 2,300,000 in Europe. Russia lost between 9 and 14 million soldiers (but they lie about numbers so it's hard to tell which is closer to true).

Watch the first seven and a half minutes of this to get some idea. Then watch the rest if you want more background.

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Old 05-24-2016, 10:26 PM   #193
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^ Interesting video and nicely done infographics. Makes one wonder how screwed the world would be (overpopulated) if we didn't have a habit of killing off a fairly large chunk every few decades.
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Old 05-25-2016, 08:13 PM   #194
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Oxford.

The very name evokes resplendence and awe.

Founded in the 9th century, Oxford University is the oldest continually operating academic institution in the English-speaking world. Its foundation predates the discovery of the American continents. The earliest of its scholars were nearer in time to the birth of Christ than to the present day. It is the foundation model of western University education, and its press are the guardians of the definitive reference of the English language itself.

And now, their Law School offers trigger warnings.

Oxford law students too ‘fragile’ to hear about violent crime: Undergraduates given 'trigger warnings' before traumatic material
By SANCHEZ MANNING and CHARLOTTE WACE FOR THE MAIL ON SUNDAY
PUBLISHED: 19:27 EST, 7 May 2016 | UPDATED: 23:08 EST, 7 May 2016


They are destined to be barristers and judges – but undergraduates studying law at Oxford are being told before lectures on cases involving violence or death that they can leave if they fear the content will be too ‘distressing’.

The revelation marks the arrival from the US of ‘trigger warnings’ – the politically correct notion that students should be warned before they encounter material that could elicit a traumatic response.

Lecturers have been asked by the director of undergraduate studies for law to ‘bear in mind’ using trigger warnings when they give lectures containing ‘potentially distressing’ content.

One law student explained: ‘Before the lectures on sexual offences – which included issues such as rape and sexual assault – we were warned that the content could be distressing, and were then given the opportunity to leave if we needed to.’

But some staff are unhappy with treating students as such fragile creatures.

Law lecturer Professor Laura Hoyano last week ridiculed the concept when she jokingly warned any students from ‘a farming family’ that she was about to discuss a case involving foot and mouth disease.

Last night, Prof Hoyano said: ‘We can’t remove sexual offences from the criminal law syllabus – obviously. If you’re going to study law, you have to deal with things that are difficult.’

An Oxford spokesman said: ‘The university aims to encourage independent and critical thinking and does not, as a rule, seek to protect students from ideas or material they may find uncomfortable. However, there may be occasions when a lecturer feels it is appropriate to advise students of potentially distressing subject matter.’

And the warnings extend beyond Oxford’s law department. One undergraduate studying English was given a warning about Robert Lowell’s poem For The Union Dead, because it contains a racial epithet.

She said: ‘We were warned that the poem contained a racial slur and that we could leave the room before it was read out or cover it up on the page.’

Sociologist Professor Frank Furedi, said: ‘Trigger warnings diminish the quality of intellectual freedom on campuses – as we’ve seen in America.

‘It’s really regrettable that Oxford, which used to be a bastion of academic excellence, is allowing these pressures to create conformism.’

Oxford University's law students too 'fragile' to hear about violent crime | Daily Mail Online

Just a bit of random commentary, from someone who has actually attended law school: Lawyers have to deal with violent, scary, unpleasant ****. Not all of them, of course. If you did it right, then you get to spend your career filing motions to suppress motions to discover evidence that some big corporation conspired against another big corporation. But all law students everywhere are required to study one of the more foundational concepts in law, which is criminal procedure. And in that particular field of study, well... people get kidnapped and raped and murdered and mutilated. If you are unable to objectively and dispassionately study said material, then frankly you have no business standing before the bar.



Come up next: Columbia Medical School allows students who get queasy at the sight of blood to opt out of gross anatomy.
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Old 05-25-2016, 09:23 PM   #195
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Come up next: Columbia Medical School allows students who get queasy at the sight of blood to opt out of gross anatomy.
Well to be fair, it is gross.

Medicine exposes you to plenty of messed up physical and social situations. Like you mentioned with lawyers, it should go without saying that these experiences are to be expected. Nevertheless, it wouldn't surprise me if your prediction on med schools comes true. Luckily there are specialties where you never see a drop of blood. But from my experience, that component can be one of the least distressing bits in such a visceral service industry, dealing with people at their worst. You'd be depressed to know the lack of overall understanding that some pre-meds have as they enter medical school. Also, C's get degrees.

I suspect that many issues discussed here have a common theme driving them: lack of perspective. I just finished a many-hour WWI audio history telling, a subject which gets less focus. It, along with tales of WWII and any other tragedies, really help you look at life through the lens of relativity. The lack of any large scale, nation-changing event that personally touches almost every family in society has probably helped the younger generation to heavily weight more asinine complaints.

To get a similar experience without throwing waves of our nation's youth into gunfire and the worst living conditions imaginable, I've thought on more than one occasion that everyone should spend some time as an EMT or at least ride on an ambulance. You really start to appreciate the positive situations in life more once you see the entire spectrum of humanity and life's possibilities. Whatever terrible scenarios your imagination can come up with, the first responders (of any branch) get to see it first.
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Old 05-28-2016, 04:41 PM   #196
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If the Germans had not invaded Russia, they could have had all of the rest of Europe, Britain, the Middle East and all of Africa. The Allies wouldn't have had a chance without Germany tying up so many forces and resources on the Eastern front.

America lost over 400,000 soldiers in both fronts combined. Germany lost 2,300,000 in Europe. Russia lost between 9 and 14 million soldiers (but they lie about numbers so it's hard to tell which is closer to true).
Yep. Most people think of WW2 as being a slaughter of the Jews and Germany vs. Allies. In terms of body count, it was Germany vs. Russia.

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Old 05-28-2016, 05:37 PM   #197
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Just now got to watch the video, very well done and very enlightening.
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Old 06-09-2016, 03:34 PM   #198
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The American Flag is a political statement students are unwilling to make and it's offensive to those that don't believe in America but want everything from American Taxpayers for free.

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Old 06-26-2016, 03:57 PM   #199
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I read this on the facebook today.

Quote:
Today in one of our classes I introduced the children to two apples (the children didn't know this, but before the class I had repeatedly dropped one of the apples on the floor, you couldn't tell, both apples looked perfect). We talked about the apples and the children described how both apples looked the same; both were red, were of similar size and looked juicy enough to eat.I picked up the apple I'd dropped on the floor and started to tell the children how I disliked this apple, that I thought it was disgusting, it was a horrible colour and the stem was just too short. I told them that because I didn't like it, I didn't want them to like it either, so they should call it names too.Some children looked at me like I was insane, but we passed the apple around the circle calling it names, 'you're a smelly apple', 'I don't even know why you exist', 'you've probably got worms inside you' etc.We really pulled this poor apple apart. I actually started to feel sorry for the little guy.We then passed another apple around and started to say kind words to it, 'You're a lovely apple', 'Your skin is beautiful', 'What a beautiful colour you are' etc.I then held up both apples, and again, we talked about the similarities and differences, there was no change, both apples still looked the same. I then cut the apples open. The apple we'd been kind to was clear, fresh and juicy inside.

The apple we'd said unkind words to was bruised and all mushy inside.I think there was a lightbulb moment for the children immediately. They really got it, what we saw inside that apple, the bruises, the mush and the broken bits is what is happening inside every one of us when someone mistreats us with their words or actions.When people are bullied, especially children, they feel horrible inside and sometimes don't show or tell others how they are feeling. If we hadn't have cut that apple open, we would never have known how much pain we had caused it.I shared my own experience of suffering someone's unkind words last week. On the outside I looked OK, I was still smiling. But, on the inside someone had caused me a lot of pain with their words and I was hurting.Unlike an apple, we have the ability to stop this from happening. We can teach children that it's not ok to say unkind things to each other and discuss how it makes others feel. We can teach our children to stand up for each other and to stop any form of bullying, just as one little girl did today when she refused to say unkind words to the apple.More and more hurt and damage happens inside if nobody does anything to stop the bullying. Let's create a generation of kind, caring children. The tongue has no bones, but is strong enough to break a heart. So be careful with your words. Source: Relax Kids Tamworth
I am at a complete loss of words. Our children are being taught that words can physically hurt other people, not to mention teaching kids words physically damage fruit... This has really gotten out of hand.


Edit*
I just MUST ask this question.

Has ANYONE who is reading this been physically hurt by words? That's a serious question, because i really lack the mental capacity to be physically harmed by sounds expelled from another humans larynx.

As a child, i was taught the whole sticks and stones routine. I was called bad names, hell i still am. I usually acknowledge it and move on with my dumb life.
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Old 06-26-2016, 04:30 PM   #200
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I read this on the facebook today.



I am at a complete loss of words. Our children are being taught that words can physically hurt other people, not to mention teaching kids words physically damage fruit... This has really gotten out of hand.


Edit*
I just MUST ask this question.

Has ANYONE who is reading this been physically hurt by words? That's a serious question, because i really lack the mental capacity to be physically harmed by sounds expelled from another humans larynx.

As a child, i was taught the whole sticks and stones routine. I was called bad names, hell i still am. I usually acknowledge it and move on with my dumb life.
I think the word metaphor would be applicable. That said, I really don't think it's all that bad to try and instill respect in kids today.

Hell, someone has to...
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