Doppelgänger

iTrader: (12)

Well, as a smart whit person, if I see 50 ******* cops in the street, you know what I am not going to do? Hang the **** around and stick my dick all up in their business. Why? Because whity knows better. Not that I am afraid of the police, but because I know it is none of my business to hang around and wait to see what is going on.

Scotts clearly trolling

Ryan_G

iTrader: (8)

FTFY.

Dogs 101. Never put your hand in the face of a strange dog even when it is completely calm. This is how people get bit. It must have been completely inconceivable to put the owner in front of the dog or back away from the suspect so that the dog could make sure he was ok and then be properly restrained. No **** it I'll just shoot it.

The dog did not bolt from the car directly at the officer and jump at him. This was not a split second decision. There was plenty of time for logic. It seems to me that no one holds officer's culpable for letting a situation escalate to the point that killing is considered necessary. I often defend the police in many of the video's brain posts because they are usually out of context but this **** was just everyone being ignorant resulting in an innocent dogs death. I expect ignorance from a random person in the general populace but I do not expect it from the police.

thenuge26

iTrader: (2)

I would think all the police cars, the guy with the megaphone, and the people standing off to the side were a pretty good indication.

In LA it is. Noise violation.[/quote]

He approached the scene, rather than the other way around. His dog would be alive today if he would have kept driving. It's not like the police entered the wrong house and shot his dog before they could figure it out (actually happened).

Right, I'm sure that was actually a show dog. My bad.

Which it looks like he was, if you watch the video.

thenuge26

iTrader: (2)

Not at all. Like anything, there is a balance of nature vs nurture. Any dog can be vicious if not trained properly. Which the cops in that instance have no idea how it was trained. I'm actually a bit surprised they didn't shoot it immediately as it walked over.

Do you walk up to random Rotts in bad neighborhoods to pet them?

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

it looked like he restrained his dog (it was always on a lease; never threatening) and was going to leave, but then he was ordered as detained by hot heads where he surrendered peacefully.

The dog didn't know any better than to stay in the car, and it was NOT attacking anyone.

If a dog getting excited and jumping on humans is threatening and abnormal, I should have killed at least 37 dogs in my lifetime.

Ryan_G

iTrader: (8)

I don't visit bad neighborhoods. I don't pet any random dogs that are not accompanied by their owners because I assume any dog could be hostile. I also do not fear pits or rots more than I would fear a standard poodle or large lab if these dogs were all equally aggressive. Any dog over a certain size is equally as capable of crushing my windpipe with their bite.

I use to train shelter dogs for the SPCA and many of them were pits and rotts and to be honest these dogs were often the sweetest. Some of them are crazy strong but they are on average no more aggressive then any other breed. In fact small dogs tend to draw far more blood more often. This is often due to the fact that they feel threatened more often because they are so much smaller then everything else and react aggressively.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

I fear all dogs. I would never shoot one; I own a Subaru.

Amellrotts

iTrader: (2)

^^^^This^^^^

thenuge26

iTrader: (2)

Sorry, that's what I was trying to get at. Not because it was a Rott specifically, but because it was a dog that COULD have killed any of the officers had it tried.

Maybe in hindsight grabbing for the leash wasn't the best idea. What would you have done? Let a 100lb dog of unknown training wander around a hostage situation?

I feel terrible for the guy and the dog. Obviously there are things that both sides could and SHOULD have done differently. But hindsight is 20/20, and this all happened in less than 10 seconds.

Ryan_G

iTrader: (8)

I've already told you what I would have done. It never would have even gotten to the point that the dog escaped the car. It was hanging out of the window. I would have told the guy to return to his car and roll the windows up enough so that his dog could not get out or give the leash to some one to hold. This is what really pisses me off. This was such an obvious move considering the guy was 100% compliant with them at this point besides not turning off the music. The guy holding the camera called the entire scene the second the suspect turned around. He straight up says the dog is going to jump out of that window and they are going to shoot it or something to that effect.

If I had somehow let it get to the point that the dog jumped out of the window I would have reached for my pepper spray and had everyone back away from the guy I was detaining because the dog would have just walked right up to him and they could have avoided everything. If it escalated I would have pepper sprayed it in the face because dogs have extremely sensitive noses and it would have been in so much pain that it would be effectively out of commission. This is not rocket science. If the dog jumped from the window full force and sprinted at me before lunging with its mouth open while snarling I probably would have shot it. That is not what happened.

EDIT: Lethal force should be used as a last resort by law enforcement not the first option. It was very unlikely that the dog would have been able to kill or even seriously injure that officer with 2 other cops right there with the way it was behaving. I have broken up dog fights and yeah you may get bitten but if you have that many people for one dog it will not be able to seriously injure you if you're not retarded.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Liability is often a variable.

It's like these brilliant folks:



Yes, on the one hand, the driver of the truck has some culpability here vis-a-vis trying to kill them.

On the other hand, getting run over by a truck is one of the risks that you knowingly assume when you lie down on the road in front of a truck.

Doppelgänger

iTrader: (12)

I can't agree with this. To me, it was clear that he only started to move toward his car when the officers started to approach him. He was poking at them, trying to get a response. When he did, only then did he start to "leave" and was probably ordered (we can't hear the audio over fucksticks radio) to stop so he could be questioned about his actions/provocation of the situation. Indeed he should have rolled the windows up as he clearly knew the dog was not anchored down inside the vehicle.

Scott, I seriously cannot tell if you are being facetious/sarcastic or not...based on what I've seen you reply to on here about other things. An example of this is you calling them "hot heads". I'd imagine a true "hot head" cop would have come over much sooner and with a weapon drawn and yelling like hell at the moron. But that is far from what they did.



[off topic] For the record, I just want to say I got pulled over last night. Upon the officer approaching my car, I was asked why I ran a red light. When I questioned exactly which light I had run, the officer changed his story to why I was speeding up to try to beat a red light. When I asked "do you mean the one I stopped at?", he asked for my license. Not but 30 seconds later he returned to my car, handed me my license and told me to slow down and have a nice night. He was black, I am white. Clearly he was profiling me because I am white and driving a sports car with an audible exhaust note. ((clearly I am being facetious about the race card, but I really did get pulled over and the officer's accusations of what I did really did change during the conversation).[/off topic]

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

I'm being serious. I love how you all justify killing innocent animals because you're incredibly racist.

Doppelgänger

iTrader: (12)

I know we like to joke about racism, but how in the world did race play any part of those events? Other then the cops just happening to be white and the idiot just happening to be black? If one wanted to stereotype anything, it was the guy "acting black" that caused everything to begin with by being "that guy" who pulls up to a police situation with ghetto **** rap blasting and the "I don't care" attitude about leaving his music blasting like hell next to the cops while they were dealing with a much more serious situation. Regardless of the guy's color, if anyone of any skin color had followed those actions, the end result would have been the same.

Scott, I have to ask you, because maybe it's a lack of exposure thing, but have you ever spent much time in The South? Being from Atlanta, I really half expect that kind of attitude/behavior from that guy in that situation. I'm not surprised at all by his "**** them, I'll do what I want to do" attitude being thrown into the faces of the officers as they were already involved in another situation. I see **** like this on a regular basis down here....uneducated black people with a blatant "**** the police" attitude (Atlanta is 58% black, by the way), which is NOT the right attitude to have. The guy's actions were not much different then me pulling up next to an officer involved in a routine traffic stop, blasting music and questioning the officer's actions. You can bet that in such a case, the officer would detain me (legally) to keep me out of his business until he could deal with me and my actions.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

why does the guy's actions justify a police officer shooting a dog?

Ryan_G

iTrader: (8)

Sounds like St. Petersburg or northern Florida....

Scrappy Jack

iTrader: (2)

You are giving people too much credit and/or making too many assumptions about their experience. You, me, Amellrotts, and others have lots of experience around dogs. We know about non-verbal signs and very conscious of what to look for and how to read and react to dog behavior.

I would argue that we are in the vast minority, and that includes dog owners. How many people do you see walking their dogs on extension leashes, letting them bark at random people and animals they are passing on a walk (without correction), etc?

I am usually the first person to criticize aggressive police. Hell, in a former life, I coined the "FTC" (F*ck Traffic Cops) phrase and IMV Films had t-shirts made up with the slogan.

In this case, I cannot defend the guy antagonizing officers in the middle of a hostage scenario. It's like flirting with a woman right in front of what you know is her surly significant other and then complaining when he lays you out. Or, like Joe's scenario of laying down right in front of a moving truck.

This post reeks of naivete. You clarified your position in a later post, but you and I both know that a lot of Pits and Rotts and other dogs that got their reputation for aggression earned it... because of shitty owners.

Not all big dogs with shitty owners are aggressive, but I would absolutely default to that assumption. In a split second decision, would you determine that guy was likely a good owner with a well-trained Rott?

Those last two seem to sum it up pretty well.

Ryan_G

iTrader: (8)

I guess I just would have expected a police officer to have at least some amount of formal training regarding dogs even if he was not a K-9 officer. Dogs are a very real obstacle for police on a regular basis. I am not really saying the police officer should be fired but that video is just really upsetting to watch. Especially when the dog is just writhing in pain on the street. There were so many ways it all could have been avoided.

mgeoffriau

iTrader: (7)

If you're going to shoot the dog, then finish the job. Don't stand there and watch it writhe around.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

the owners actions justify that the dog has to die a slow painful unexpected avoidable death.