my miata's back... slower :( AVO beats BEGI
#22
C'mon Jason, everyone said the BEGI manifolds were the best thing since sliced bread. Stephanie has touted their "superiority". I've said in a few threads, TEST THE MANIFOLD TO OTHERS on a dyno and datalog before you claim victory. Seems like a simple premise to me.
Too many BEGI lovers here.
I don't care about the math behind the design of a part, I want to see the results on a dyno.
Frank
Too many BEGI lovers here.
I don't care about the math behind the design of a part, I want to see the results on a dyno.
Frank
So here we have a manifold that flows better than the BEGi one. Good enough for me. I do think the BEGi manifold is better than the FM manifold. I suspect that I will lose some power from my Ghettocharger manifold to the BEGi one, I would be surprised if I didn't. I do expect to gain a factor of reliability though. Jason got a manifold that was easier to install. Does that count towards superiority? Perhaps not, but it is something to consider as well.
There is one other possibility, although I am sure Jason has already looked at this. The new manifold may benefit from different tuning and that could be playing a factor in the way the turbo and manifold are performing. Either way, it looks like the AVO manifold might be the better manifold.
Mark
#24
28 seconds, haha.
Anyway, that's the same manifold I have. It mounts the turbo a lot lower than begi or any other manifold I've seen. I can confirm that it is a b*tch to install, the bottom bolts are impossible to reach and I had to replace the nuts twice because I stripped them both times I was taking it off. I cannot comment on the flow because I never had another manifold
Anyway, that's the same manifold I have. It mounts the turbo a lot lower than begi or any other manifold I've seen. I can confirm that it is a b*tch to install, the bottom bolts are impossible to reach and I had to replace the nuts twice because I stripped them both times I was taking it off. I cannot comment on the flow because I never had another manifold
#30
Got some proper spoolup datalogs done, with some numbers with the AVO. 2nd gear, flooring it at 1500 rpm, same flat road, ambient within 6°C of each other. Full boost is 170 kPa.
Remember this is 2nd gear, it takes all of ~4sec to go from 2000 to 6000 RPM
RPM AVOkpa BEGIkpa
2000 117 112
2500 136 128
3000 161 145
3277 170 159
3450 175 170
Huge difference around 3000 rpm - 2psi - this is why the car feels much soggier shifting at 3000 rpm. On a bad day the AVO never felt this laggy. :(
Remember this is 2nd gear, it takes all of ~4sec to go from 2000 to 6000 RPM
RPM AVOkpa BEGIkpa
2000 117 112
2500 136 128
3000 161 145
3277 170 159
3450 175 170
Huge difference around 3000 rpm - 2psi - this is why the car feels much soggier shifting at 3000 rpm. On a bad day the AVO never felt this laggy. :(
#35
No comments on my HARD data?
Got some proper spoolup datalogs done, with some numbers with the AVO. 2nd gear, flooring it at 1500 rpm, same flat road, ambient within 6°C of each other. Full boost is 170 kPa.
Remember this is 2nd gear, it takes all of ~4sec to go from 2000 to 6000 RPM
RPM AVOkpa BEGIkpa
2000 117 112
2500 136 128
3000 161 145
3277 170 159
3450 175 170
Huge difference around 3000 rpm - 2psi - this is why the car feels much soggier shifting at 3000 rpm. On a bad day the AVO never felt this laggy. :(
Remember this is 2nd gear, it takes all of ~4sec to go from 2000 to 6000 RPM
RPM AVOkpa BEGIkpa
2000 117 112
2500 136 128
3000 161 145
3277 170 159
3450 175 170
Huge difference around 3000 rpm - 2psi - this is why the car feels much soggier shifting at 3000 rpm. On a bad day the AVO never felt this laggy. :(
#37
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does the AVO hold the turbo down a little lower? That would result in a straighter, and possibly slighly larger diameter, downpipe. I've always thought that the restriction after the turbo, not before, was the primary concern.
Ben
Ben
#38
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I think the main problem when you look at the BEGi vs. the AVO is that the AVO in the least slightly angles the pulses into the turbine....the BEGi even with it's "directed pulse" wall, still has 1 & 4 pointed towards each other....not even ever so slightly into the turbine. Hitting the pulse wall will angle it in, but then that's another 90° the pulses have to travel.
I'm confident that Corky, if backwards compatibility wasn't a concern, even with a cast manifold, would have designed it slightly different.
I'm confident that Corky, if backwards compatibility wasn't a concern, even with a cast manifold, would have designed it slightly different.
#39
Yes the AVO mounts a lot lower and there's a nearly straight shot from #3 into the turbine (funny the turbo mounts rearward despite lack of space for the downpipe). It also appears that the curves for #1 and #4 are gentler. On the BEGI the runners come out from the ports a bit before turning sharply, to make room for wrenches. On the AVO they begin curving immediately, thus the gentler radius. There is also a slight turn-in into the turbine for #1 and #4... but of course #1 and #4 still "look" into each other.
#40
I keep looking at this ETD shorty manifold and getting a woody. Look how beautiful the flow is into the turbine:
I called them and for an add'l $100 they can custom build one in 3 weeks using 1.25" tubing (inst. of 1.5", for spoolup), with a T25 flange. The extra $100 is because the runners need to neck down more for the T25's narrower entry.
They said they plan to stop making it at some point because it's less profitable than their other stuff. :(
I visited the muffler guy who built my custom exhaust and he can modify my BEGI downpipe to work with the new manifold for $120 to $300 depending on actual time, and ~2 days.
So............ should I leap in?
I called them and for an add'l $100 they can custom build one in 3 weeks using 1.25" tubing (inst. of 1.5", for spoolup), with a T25 flange. The extra $100 is because the runners need to neck down more for the T25's narrower entry.
They said they plan to stop making it at some point because it's less profitable than their other stuff. :(
I visited the muffler guy who built my custom exhaust and he can modify my BEGI downpipe to work with the new manifold for $120 to $300 depending on actual time, and ~2 days.
So............ should I leap in?