A Very Simple Turbo Kit Proposal - Specualtors welcome
#1
A Very Simple Turbo Kit Proposal - Specualtors welcome
I originally pitched this on cr.net and was told to pitch here. (please be aware, I am conscience of what I am doing and do have some knowledge of the subject. I am well aware of it will do to my engine stress and performance wise.)
Alright guys, I have been searching like crazy, but I apologize if I have any of my info mixed up.
I am looking for a very simple turbo setup to run low boost that can put together very easily.
My boost goal - 7-9psi
The kit itself:
1.Exhaust
- some form of manifold and downpipe
- some form of aftermarket exhaust: 2.5" diameter or bigger
2. Turbo
- Thinking like a t25 from an sr20 or something (internally wastegated) quick spool time, dont need a lot of boost
3. Fuel modifications
- Vortech FMU (dont know what ratio. Suggestions?) still learning about these. Would this control my fuel completely? Or would still need to get some form of electronic fuel management and have it tuned?
- 1.8 injectors (would the fmu be able to manage these %100 of the time? Or would I need to get some form of piggyback to help idle conditions?)
- larger fuel pump (something that is pnp)
4. Intercooler setup
- I would want to make this very simple. Something like this guys:
5. Coolant and oil lines:
- oil feed: thinking a sandwich plate or something of that sort
- oil return - would like to avoid drilling into oil pan if possible. I would like to make this kit pnp and easily removable if needed. Suggestions? Or am I stuck?
- coolant feed and return: i read on miataturbo.net that the miata has two water lines that can be tapped into easily. Perfect for this
6. Monitoring
- wideband afr gauge (already have the aem uego)
- boost gauge (already have this as well)
Alright, please let me know what you think. I have my flame suit on. Is there anything else to consider? Like motor mounts, catch can setups, upgraded fprs, ect. I hope I didnt forget anything. Thanks aheah of time for suggestions
Alright guys, I have been searching like crazy, but I apologize if I have any of my info mixed up.
I am looking for a very simple turbo setup to run low boost that can put together very easily.
My boost goal - 7-9psi
The kit itself:
1.Exhaust
- some form of manifold and downpipe
- some form of aftermarket exhaust: 2.5" diameter or bigger
2. Turbo
- Thinking like a t25 from an sr20 or something (internally wastegated) quick spool time, dont need a lot of boost
3. Fuel modifications
- Vortech FMU (dont know what ratio. Suggestions?) still learning about these. Would this control my fuel completely? Or would still need to get some form of electronic fuel management and have it tuned?
- 1.8 injectors (would the fmu be able to manage these %100 of the time? Or would I need to get some form of piggyback to help idle conditions?)
- larger fuel pump (something that is pnp)
4. Intercooler setup
- I would want to make this very simple. Something like this guys:
5. Coolant and oil lines:
- oil feed: thinking a sandwich plate or something of that sort
- oil return - would like to avoid drilling into oil pan if possible. I would like to make this kit pnp and easily removable if needed. Suggestions? Or am I stuck?
- coolant feed and return: i read on miataturbo.net that the miata has two water lines that can be tapped into easily. Perfect for this
6. Monitoring
- wideband afr gauge (already have the aem uego)
- boost gauge (already have this as well)
Alright, please let me know what you think. I have my flame suit on. Is there anything else to consider? Like motor mounts, catch can setups, upgraded fprs, ect. I hope I didnt forget anything. Thanks aheah of time for suggestions
#3
+1 for this. The general consensus is Megasquirt is 10x better than bandaids for not much more money.
Manifold/DP/Intercooler setup would probably be best sourced from the classifieds section, or DIY.
Oil lines can be had from JGS http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/index2.html
Manifold/DP/Intercooler setup would probably be best sourced from the classifieds section, or DIY.
Oil lines can be had from JGS http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/index2.html
#6
(edit: thats main reason why i am avoiding the electronic fuel management route. My previous project left a bad taste in my mouth. If I were to go in that direction, it would be full stand alone only. If i can use a very simple setup that is still well composed that is all mechanically controlled, I would love to go that route)
My knowledge is limited when it comes to fmu's and how they work, i guess. They seem like a simple way of maintaining boost without getting too deep into making/editing fuel maps or anything that the ecu directly sees. Can you or someone shed more light onto them?
Last edited by Caconman424; 06-27-2012 at 02:47 AM.
#9
Full_tilt said it. I wish I had someone to tell me not to bother with bandaids and go straight to MS. But by the sound of things MS might be a little much for you right now. There's a learning curve and if FMUs are throwing you for a loop you may be in over your head. You need to read the diy faq sticky. Jumping in without knowing what you're doing is going to net you a blown motor and a bad day.
Please do not underestimate me and my "learning curve." i know exactly what to do with a stand alone unit. I can promise you that.
#10
Then I guess I regret asking the question. Again, my knowledge on FMU's is limited. I have seen a few setups on miatas that incorporate them, and wanted to see if they are effiecient or not. This thread and has more than answered that. I am not looking for a "well tuned and powerful" miata. I unfortunately do not have the expendable income to support that. I seek simplicity. :/
#11
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 14,189
Total Cats: 1,135
Boost enters intake manifold, exits (beyond the intake valves) into a vacuum nipple, through a vacuum hose, and into the FMU, where it pushes on a rubber disc. The more boost your turbo makes, the more it pushes on the disc. On the back of the disc is a valve that essentially pinches off the return line from the stock fuel pressure regulator. The stock fpr is designed to increase fuel pressure when the return line is pinched. So, long story short, the Afpr increase fuel pressure while boost increases.
They very temperamental, they don't effect timing, they don't do anything to change the amount of fuel delivered at idle (which is why you can't run larger injectors with an Afpr) and they usually require an upgraded fuel pump.
MS does all these things, and doesn't require a fuel pump.
Don't use piggy backs.
Also, don't reinvent the wheel with oil drains, drill your pan. There is a spot to use without drilling, but it's below the intake manifold. So the drain hose has to go around the engine with a constant downward angle. Big pain in the ***
They very temperamental, they don't effect timing, they don't do anything to change the amount of fuel delivered at idle (which is why you can't run larger injectors with an Afpr) and they usually require an upgraded fuel pump.
MS does all these things, and doesn't require a fuel pump.
Don't use piggy backs.
Also, don't reinvent the wheel with oil drains, drill your pan. There is a spot to use without drilling, but it's below the intake manifold. So the drain hose has to go around the engine with a constant downward angle. Big pain in the ***
#12
Boost enters intake manifold, exits (beyond the intake valves) into a vacuum nipple, through a vacuum hose, and into the FMU, where it pushes on a rubber disc. The more boost your turbo makes, the more it pushes on the disc. On the back of the disc is a valve that essentially pinches off the return line from the stock fuel pressure regulator. The stock fpr is designed to increase fuel pressure when the return line is pinched. So, long story short, the Afpr increase fuel pressure while boost increases.
They very temperamental, they don't effect timing, they don't do anything to change the amount of fuel delivered at idle (which is why you can't run larger injectors with an Afpr) and they usually require an upgraded fuel pump.
MS does all these things, and doesn't require a fuel pump.
Don't use piggy backs.
Also, don't reinvent the wheel with oil drains, drill your pan. There is a spot to use without drilling, but it's below the intake manifold. So the drain hose has to go around the engine with a constant downward angle. Big pain in the ***
They very temperamental, they don't effect timing, they don't do anything to change the amount of fuel delivered at idle (which is why you can't run larger injectors with an Afpr) and they usually require an upgraded fuel pump.
MS does all these things, and doesn't require a fuel pump.
Don't use piggy backs.
Also, don't reinvent the wheel with oil drains, drill your pan. There is a spot to use without drilling, but it's below the intake manifold. So the drain hose has to go around the engine with a constant downward angle. Big pain in the ***
#13
This is the consensus here and for good reason!
I plan to go stand alone in the near future so I can use bigger injectors, fire COPs and run multiple tunes etc...
If you do find yourself for whatever reason running a piggy back then all is not lost imo, particularly in a low boost dd with the right setup.
I have been running an EMB with a vtec triggered O2 clamp and tps/narrowband autotune for 6 months and it performs perfectly well and consistently at 7 psi.
90% my dd car is buried deep in vacuum where the stock ecu does the excellent job it was designed to do.
The other 10% of the time the EMB retards spark relative to boost pressure and adds fuel to maintain a specified AFR (12.5) through lambda error corrected additional injection. Perceptively, the car has never missed a beat which is also verified by WB and data logs . The temperatures have gone from -10 to plus 35 degC and I have used a bunch of fuel from 93 to 100 octane. The initial setup is simple and no dyno time is needed.
I plan to go stand alone in the near future so I can use bigger injectors, fire COPs and run multiple tunes etc...
If you do find yourself for whatever reason running a piggy back then all is not lost imo, particularly in a low boost dd with the right setup.
I have been running an EMB with a vtec triggered O2 clamp and tps/narrowband autotune for 6 months and it performs perfectly well and consistently at 7 psi.
https://www.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=65812
90% my dd car is buried deep in vacuum where the stock ecu does the excellent job it was designed to do.
The other 10% of the time the EMB retards spark relative to boost pressure and adds fuel to maintain a specified AFR (12.5) through lambda error corrected additional injection. Perceptively, the car has never missed a beat which is also verified by WB and data logs . The temperatures have gone from -10 to plus 35 degC and I have used a bunch of fuel from 93 to 100 octane. The initial setup is simple and no dyno time is needed.
#19
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 14,189
Total Cats: 1,135
Side note: the only reason you think that's a simple system is because you can see all of it.
I replaced my crappy over the radiator setup for a much better flowing around the radiator setup without adding any extra couplers.
I replaced my crappy over the radiator setup for a much better flowing around the radiator setup without adding any extra couplers.