Cost Effectiveness of different ECUs
#41
The thing that kills me with all of them is that they arent able to make histograms in the logging software. Though I leaned to tune with histograms and no real time tuning, honestly I cant figure out how you're expected to tune without histograms or rtt, its like banging rocks together to make fire. I know I can make histograms in excel but that takes like, effort.
#43
Only issue that I ever had with Adaptronic was idle. And that really was pain in the *** to tune until I finally found that my crank&cam sensors were in "wrong mode". Now its ok. Not as good as OEM but 98% close
Other than that idle part Adaptronic is great! Easy to use and it gives me everything I want. I find WARI very easy to use and so did my last tuner who only tune and sell ViPEC ecu’s. He was very quiet when I tell him that my Adaptronic E420c only cost 650$. His ViPEC ecu’s were around 1800$
If I have to choose again I still would go with Adaptronic, probably only because I know how to tune it. But all to my friends I still recommend MS3x. Just because I’m sure it has better idle control and there isn’t cheap Adaptronic model anymore
Other than that idle part Adaptronic is great! Easy to use and it gives me everything I want. I find WARI very easy to use and so did my last tuner who only tune and sell ViPEC ecu’s. He was very quiet when I tell him that my Adaptronic E420c only cost 650$. His ViPEC ecu’s were around 1800$
If I have to choose again I still would go with Adaptronic, probably only because I know how to tune it. But all to my friends I still recommend MS3x. Just because I’m sure it has better idle control and there isn’t cheap Adaptronic model anymore
#45
I found the best way to tune idle on a stand alone that doesnt do a good job is to set it with the idle screw so that it idles perfectly under normal conditions and zero out the iac setting near normal conditions, only use spark advance near normal, and only use the iac in a stead state if you have a situation where idle deviates by more than 50rpm, like turning on the a/c. Normally gives you a perfectly smooth idle, will give you a high idle if you tuned it at high altitude and you move to lower altitude though. It does require at least 25rpm steps on the idle ignition map though to really work well, at least near normal idle conditions.
#46
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
I can't start the car and immediately floor it with the AC on without it stumbling when I let off the throttle, and car manufacturers actually tune for this. I can start the car with the AC on and drive like a sane person and never miss a beat.
#48
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,338
Total Cats: 573
The thing that kills me with all of them is that they arent able to make histograms in the logging software. Though I leaned to tune with histograms and no real time tuning, honestly I cant figure out how you're expected to tune without histograms or rtt, its like banging rocks together to make fire. I know I can make histograms in excel but that takes like, effort.
explain what you mean by histograms. and real-time-tuning for that matter.
#49
Histogram, so if you take say your fuel map. Take the axis from it and within the axis you would plot the average afr-error% in each cell. Then you can easily copy and paste multiply by % (a feature that you could do by hand in excel again) in the actual fuel table. Pretty much only used when you arent real time tuning because you'd go out and take a log come back and turn the car off while you correct the map and then smooth out between the cells that are used in the histogram and the cells that arent. They look like the graph in the top right.
Real time tuning would be, the car is actually running and I am plugged into it with the laptop and when I change a value on the laptop it changes on the car. It makes dyno tuning so much faster and I dont think I've run into a modern stand alone that cant do it.
Real time tuning would be, the car is actually running and I am plugged into it with the laptop and when I change a value on the laptop it changes on the car. It makes dyno tuning so much faster and I dont think I've run into a modern stand alone that cant do it.
#50
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,338
Total Cats: 573
Histogram, so if you take say your fuel map. Take the axis from it and within the axis you would plot the average afr-error% in each cell. Then you can easily copy and paste multiply by % (a feature that you could do by hand in excel again) in the actual fuel table. Pretty much only used when you arent real time tuning because you'd go out and take a log come back and turn the car off while you correct the map and then smooth out between the cells that are used in the histogram and the cells that arent. They look like the graph in the top right.
Real time tuning would be, the car is actually running and I am plugged into it with the laptop and when I change a value on the laptop it changes on the car. It makes dyno tuning so much faster and I dont think I've run into a modern stand alone that cant do it.
Real time tuning would be, the car is actually running and I am plugged into it with the laptop and when I change a value on the laptop it changes on the car. It makes dyno tuning so much faster and I dont think I've run into a modern stand alone that cant do it.
2. if I change a number in tunerstudio with the computer connected to the car, it's going to change the value in the ECU. absolutely this happens on the fuel and timing maps.
similarly, if I enable VE Analyze and let it update the controller, it will real-time tune automatically and make corrections constantly based on my AFR targets.
am I not getting what you're looking for?
#51
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,085
Total Cats: 375
Histogram, so if you take say your fuel map. Take the axis from it and within the axis you would plot the average afr-error% in each cell. Then you can easily copy and paste multiply by % (a feature that you could do by hand in excel again) in the actual fuel table. Pretty much only used when you arent real time tuning because you'd go out and take a log come back and turn the car off while you correct the map and then smooth out between the cells that are used in the histogram and the cells that arent. They look like the graph in the top right.
Real time tuning would be, the car is actually running and I am plugged into it with the laptop and when I change a value on the laptop it changes on the car. It makes dyno tuning so much faster and I dont think I've run into a modern stand alone that cant do it.
Real time tuning would be, the car is actually running and I am plugged into it with the laptop and when I change a value on the laptop it changes on the car. It makes dyno tuning so much faster and I dont think I've run into a modern stand alone that cant do it.
#54
Yes I have tuned some of these, I know they do RTT. I wasnt saying any of them lacked it. I was saying they lacked histograms. And then I went on to say I couldnt imagine tuning without RTT or histograms, it would feel so archaic. I know autotune does this, I don't like using auto tune because I dont know what its doing behind the scenes. Like, for example, when approaching the final values I like to only make half the change the histogram would suggest so that I don't over shoot.
#57
I really like connecting with USB and the autotuning on its own. As well as a truly plug and play installation.
I did have trouble setting idle for all conditions as there was allways some trouble with the large extra electrical loads that did not have their own digital inputs for the ecu to tell it to compensate accordingly. Now that the oem ecu is running the IACV I have stock idle. Turn the key and go, no matter what.
Andy the creator is also very active on the adaptronic forum and has been a good help for me and others tuning their cars.
#60
No adaptronic retails for 1350 or something from boundary engineering. (with the wiring harness)
From memory i think i bought mine from the first or 2nd group buy when it first came out for just over 1k.
At first Adaptronic had a lot of issues. From memory the VVT controls were blowing resistors on the red ecus, another was the the stock idle controls werent working on early NBs, well a whole lot of other controls were garbage. As more people started running it those problems started showing and one by one they were eliminated. The black label 420 units fixed the vvt resistor issues. A year ago, me and Andy were trying to figure out the idle control problem, he ended up finding that few wires were switched. Flipped them around and everything is working. Then few months ago chasing another problem, we switched the wires for the injectors and now the transition throttle works much better. Long story short because the ecu was so new it had plenty of problems but one by one adaptronics problems have been eliminated.
I saw the autotunning being brought up. Its fairly simple but works with no problem. You set a tolerance around each cell and when you're within that tolerance the autotune adjusts your afr till it hits the chosen afr whether its 14.7afr or whatever. Works alright but its bad since you need to be very close to a cell for it to work. If you make the tolerance too big then it wont work right since the fuel needed at say 2800rpm is different enough from 3200 (400 rpm tolerance).