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Old 08-10-2012, 10:23 PM   #41
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The thing that kills me with all of them is that they arent able to make histograms in the logging software. Though I leaned to tune with histograms and no real time tuning, honestly I cant figure out how you're expected to tune without histograms or rtt, its like banging rocks together to make fire. I know I can make histograms in excel but that takes like, effort.
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:37 AM   #42
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So far I've tuned:

AEM
PowerFC
Motec
Hydra
TEC3r
E-manage

As far tuning software goes, TunerStudio is by far the most userfriendly.
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:08 AM   #43
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Only issue that I ever had with Adaptronic was idle. And that really was pain in the *** to tune until I finally found that my crank&cam sensors were in "wrong mode". Now its ok. Not as good as OEM but 98% close

Other than that idle part Adaptronic is great! Easy to use and it gives me everything I want. I find WARI very easy to use and so did my last tuner who only tune and sell ViPEC ecuís. He was very quiet when I tell him that my Adaptronic E420c only cost 650$. His ViPEC ecuís were around 1800$

If I have to choose again I still would go with Adaptronic, probably only because I know how to tune it. But all to my friends I still recommend MS3x. Just because Iím sure it has better idle control and there isnít cheap Adaptronic model anymore
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:35 AM   #44
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IS the adaptronic retailing at 650 in the US?

Its an aussie product and retails for 1800 here..

Dann
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:35 AM   #45
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I found the best way to tune idle on a stand alone that doesnt do a good job is to set it with the idle screw so that it idles perfectly under normal conditions and zero out the iac setting near normal conditions, only use spark advance near normal, and only use the iac in a stead state if you have a situation where idle deviates by more than 50rpm, like turning on the a/c. Normally gives you a perfectly smooth idle, will give you a high idle if you tuned it at high altitude and you move to lower altitude though. It does require at least 25rpm steps on the idle ignition map though to really work well, at least near normal idle conditions.
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:38 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spikes View Post
What do you mean exactly by its not still OEM?
I can't start the car and immediately floor it with the AC on without it stumbling when I let off the throttle, and car manufacturers actually tune for this. I can start the car with the AC on and drive like a sane person and never miss a beat.
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:39 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrodann View Post
IS the adaptronic retailing at 65 in the US?

Its an aussie product and retails for 1800 here..

Dann
Actually my E420c was 479£ (750$) when I bought it from EFI-Parts.co.uk few years ago.
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:56 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
The thing that kills me with all of them is that they arent able to make histograms in the logging software. Though I leaned to tune with histograms and no real time tuning, honestly I cant figure out how you're expected to tune without histograms or rtt, its like banging rocks together to make fire. I know I can make histograms in excel but that takes like, effort.

explain what you mean by histograms. and real-time-tuning for that matter.
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:05 AM   #49
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Histogram, so if you take say your fuel map. Take the axis from it and within the axis you would plot the average afr-error% in each cell. Then you can easily copy and paste multiply by % (a feature that you could do by hand in excel again) in the actual fuel table. Pretty much only used when you arent real time tuning because you'd go out and take a log come back and turn the car off while you correct the map and then smooth out between the cells that are used in the histogram and the cells that arent. They look like the graph in the top right.



Real time tuning would be, the car is actually running and I am plugged into it with the laptop and when I change a value on the laptop it changes on the car. It makes dyno tuning so much faster and I dont think I've run into a modern stand alone that cant do it.
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:32 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Histogram, so if you take say your fuel map. Take the axis from it and within the axis you would plot the average afr-error% in each cell. Then you can easily copy and paste multiply by % (a feature that you could do by hand in excel again) in the actual fuel table. Pretty much only used when you arent real time tuning because you'd go out and take a log come back and turn the car off while you correct the map and then smooth out between the cells that are used in the histogram and the cells that arent. They look like the graph in the top right.



Real time tuning would be, the car is actually running and I am plugged into it with the laptop and when I change a value on the laptop it changes on the car. It makes dyno tuning so much faster and I dont think I've run into a modern stand alone that cant do it.
1. I bet Phil Tobin would be amenable to creating a histogram function for MLV or TS. Data is all there, it's just a different way to display it.

2. if I change a number in tunerstudio with the computer connected to the car, it's going to change the value in the ECU. absolutely this happens on the fuel and timing maps.

similarly, if I enable VE Analyze and let it update the controller, it will real-time tune automatically and make corrections constantly based on my AFR targets.

am I not getting what you're looking for?
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Old 08-11-2012, 02:59 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Histogram, so if you take say your fuel map. Take the axis from it and within the axis you would plot the average afr-error% in each cell. Then you can easily copy and paste multiply by % (a feature that you could do by hand in excel again) in the actual fuel table. Pretty much only used when you arent real time tuning because you'd go out and take a log come back and turn the car off while you correct the map and then smooth out between the cells that are used in the histogram and the cells that arent. They look like the graph in the top right.



Real time tuning would be, the car is actually running and I am plugged into it with the laptop and when I change a value on the laptop it changes on the car. It makes dyno tuning so much faster and I dont think I've run into a modern stand alone that cant do it.
VEAL essentially does this by altering the cells on your behalf. It would be cool to see those values. However, I would not trust those values in a sweep, only in steady state. Again, it would be cool to see this, but VEAL already does this and changes the value for you.
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Old 08-11-2012, 03:53 PM   #52
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Yeah but its also nice for tuning out knock from the spark tables. So I log knock retard deg max in each cell of a spark map. If I get some KR out on a street tune run I'll see it and can pull the timing in those cells. then smooth it out again.
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:09 PM   #53
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Have you ever tuned any of the systems we're talking about? All of them update "real time".
And autotune essentially does what you're describing this "histogram" to do, except its even easier cause it does it on its own.
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:20 PM   #54
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Yes I have tuned some of these, I know they do RTT. I wasnt saying any of them lacked it. I was saying they lacked histograms. And then I went on to say I couldnt imagine tuning without RTT or histograms, it would feel so archaic. I know autotune does this, I don't like using auto tune because I dont know what its doing behind the scenes. Like, for example, when approaching the final values I like to only make half the change the histogram would suggest so that I don't over shoot.
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:23 PM   #55
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You can make it do that too lol.
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:30 PM   #56
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Well I guess I need to look at auto tune again. Last time I used one it just added the fuel trims into the cells.
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:40 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I will not tune Adaptronics until they release a replacement for WARI. It is literally the worst piece of software I have ever used.
So tell me what am I missing with WARI? I have never tuned a car before I started with the adaptronic and while it could be prettier I don`t know what features I should have or if things should be easier. Seems easy and straightforward to me.

I really like connecting with USB and the autotuning on its own. As well as a truly plug and play installation.
I did have trouble setting idle for all conditions as there was allways some trouble with the large extra electrical loads that did not have their own digital inputs for the ecu to tell it to compensate accordingly. Now that the oem ecu is running the IACV I have stock idle. Turn the key and go, no matter what.

Andy the creator is also very active on the adaptronic forum and has been a good help for me and others tuning their cars.
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:42 PM   #58
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What ecu is the "easiest?" I have downloaded both tuner studio and the aem software. After playing around with both, I'm not able to see a huge difference. What is the easiest for the average joe with a wideband to use effectively?
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Old 08-11-2012, 06:13 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by lassi View Post
As well as a truly plug and play installation..
really?
back when we first started using them there was like 3 wires of splicing required to get it to work. I think for the map sensor. whereas ms comes with its own onboard one.
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Old 08-11-2012, 06:14 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrodann View Post
IS the adaptronic retailing at 650 in the US?

Its an aussie product and retails for 1800 here..

Dann

No adaptronic retails for 1350 or something from boundary engineering. (with the wiring harness)

From memory i think i bought mine from the first or 2nd group buy when it first came out for just over 1k.

At first Adaptronic had a lot of issues. From memory the VVT controls were blowing resistors on the red ecus, another was the the stock idle controls werent working on early NBs, well a whole lot of other controls were garbage. As more people started running it those problems started showing and one by one they were eliminated. The black label 420 units fixed the vvt resistor issues. A year ago, me and Andy were trying to figure out the idle control problem, he ended up finding that few wires were switched. Flipped them around and everything is working. Then few months ago chasing another problem, we switched the wires for the injectors and now the transition throttle works much better. Long story short because the ecu was so new it had plenty of problems but one by one adaptronics problems have been eliminated.

I saw the autotunning being brought up. Its fairly simple but works with no problem. You set a tolerance around each cell and when you're within that tolerance the autotune adjusts your afr till it hits the chosen afr whether its 14.7afr or whatever. Works alright but its bad since you need to be very close to a cell for it to work. If you make the tolerance too big then it wont work right since the fuel needed at say 2800rpm is different enough from 3200 (400 rpm tolerance).
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