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Old 08-22-2016, 04:11 PM   #21
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for the record, I've ACTUALLY tried this with Toms FFTHUPERCHARGER. cause when I call someone a moron, and their whole forced induction method moronic, I like to speak from experience.

200-220F at cruise, 250-280F at 8psi of boost, on e85, and car made absolutely no friggen power cause it was ingesting lava

Good look. This is what I needed to hear.
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Old 08-22-2016, 04:22 PM   #22
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I believe I might have figured out how you can run E98 without an IC. You will need an extra injector AND

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Old 08-22-2016, 04:24 PM   #23
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I stacked 8 powercard pro's inline and made 6900hp with -200F IAT's

had to install block warmer to keep the engine from freezing. had condensation on the turbine
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Old 08-22-2016, 04:25 PM   #24
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Bahahahahahaha. Sold.
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Old 08-22-2016, 04:26 PM   #25
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Bahahahahahaha. Sold.
There are some Power Cards for sale in the classifieds right now.
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Old 08-22-2016, 04:31 PM   #26
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But for now I am going to go with this to be extra safe.



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Old 08-22-2016, 04:35 PM   #27
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that will get you started. you'll need another one in the rear too
(that's what he said)
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Old 08-22-2016, 04:47 PM   #28
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You could buy E98 and add as needed if your tuned for real E85 and you get a weak batch (I've heard it fluctuates down to E70 at times) for peace of mind
I was (sort of) thinking the same thing. Tune for E85, add E98 when E85 is actually less to richen it up. Problem is that a 55gal drum of E98 is ~$600 delivered to CA.

Are there other options to richen a low ethanol content "E85" like 98% denatured alcohol?
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Old 08-22-2016, 04:48 PM   #29
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see post #2.

also it would richen up with less e content. opposite with more. so it's naturally a "fail safe"
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Old 08-22-2016, 05:12 PM   #30
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As 18psi has said, even with little amount of ethanol, the benefits are high and it actually gets to a diminishing return the higher you go after 30. So if you have access to E98, mix it up with gas unless you are getting it cheaper than gas!
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Old 08-22-2016, 05:14 PM   #31
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see post #2.

also it would richen up with less e content. opposite with more. so it's naturally a "fail safe"
I did see "MBT achieved at ~E70", but not sure how to integrate this with the tune.

i.e. if we tune for E85 then blend the maps back for lower E content. So the tune isn't more aggressive at E85 vs E70? Or that an aggressive E70 tune reaches MBT and therefore there's nothing more to gain up to E85?
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Old 08-22-2016, 05:17 PM   #32
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Both will get you to, and well past MBT.

Meaning you really don't get to run any more spark with 85 vs 70, cause you're already running ALLOFIT

The only real difference is you're about a point leaner with 85 and your fueling needs to accommodate this.
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Old 08-22-2016, 05:20 PM   #33
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Is there any real data on the relationship between ethanol content and knock prevention/timing advance.

I have heard 3rd hand that the guys at English Racing tune flex fuel very conservative. I.E. as soon as you don't have a certain amount of ethanol (E70? E80?) they dump a bunch of timing out. But I hate information like that, impossible to trust.

I assume you can tune the fuel mix quite linearly because you are just trying to hit ideal AFR's, but I don't know if timing follows the same curve.
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Old 08-22-2016, 05:24 PM   #34
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I don't really think there can be a "universal chart" like that.

There is e85, then there is e85, hundreds of pumps with varying content and purity and quality, and the bottom line is it's way better to be conservative and do what ER does than to risk it with a more linear transition.

But that's all subjective opinion.
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Old 08-22-2016, 05:25 PM   #35
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I don't know much about how this stuff is regulated btw, but I bet it's.......not

Like, companies just kinda run what they think is right, and as long as actual content of e is at or higher than advertised, they're "good"
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Old 08-22-2016, 05:27 PM   #36
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seems like you cowboys have almost got a consistent flex sensor "path" figured out, I'll be reading that more when Marcello comes down to the Sac and we try to get his newly rebuilt MS3 to run it
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Old 08-22-2016, 05:28 PM   #37
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The only place around that we have e85 is called Jay's garage. And they cater to the "enthusiast". I'd be willing to be that it is someone constant, they seem like the kind of place that would pride themselves in that and advertise it.
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Old 08-22-2016, 05:29 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
seems like you cowboys have almost got a consistent flex sensor "path" figured out, I'll be reading that more when Marcello comes down to the Sac and we try to get his newly rebuilt MS3 to run it
I have the hardware in, and working. But have not tuned it yet. The hardware was easy, the tuning is a little more interesting. There are a few ways to do it.
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Old 08-25-2016, 03:45 PM   #39
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From what I've read vlad hit a good point with the part about needing gasoline. It lubes stuff in ways that alcohol doesnt. (there is a dirty joke in there somewhere)

You have to go to extreme limits to get e85 to knock.

Jays garage is like $3.00 a gallon for e85. Show up with a 55 gallon drum and spend half the price.
Ouch..... in SD we get E85 for well under $2 bucks a gallon...... I was kinda thinking of going that route just because of how cheap and available it is around here.
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Old 08-25-2016, 04:51 PM   #40
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As 18psi has said, even with little amount of ethanol, the benefits are high and it actually gets to a diminishing return the higher you go after 30. So if you have access to E98, mix it up with gas unless you are getting it cheaper than gas!
this could be a good compromise. If e30ish is where you cap out on timing then it would make sense to keep it at those levels. If I have the science right the fuel map would need less compensation and the injectors would be taxed less. Also slightly better gas mileage. The major inconvenience would be the mixing but if you were to get a drum of e98 and keep a few gallons in a separate jug in the trunk you could just get whatever gallons of e10 plus 2 gallons of e98 equal 30 and just verify you are close by monitoring your sensor. I'm sure there is a tolerance of a few points.
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