97Miata w/ 99head....trying to pass emissions
08-24-2010, 06:05 PM
#1
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97Miata w/ 99head....trying to pass emissions
Hey guys,
I've got a 1997 Miata with a 1999 head. My mechanic was returning the 1997 intake manifold and throttle body, but found out it didn't mate up with the 1999 head.
Question:
We need to know if MY97 throttle body and EGR valve will fit on MY99 intake manifold. Will fuel rails clear, as well? If so, need to source MY99 intake manifold.
ARGH! I knew OBDII emissions would be a pain. Damn you state of Virginia!!!!
Any other thoughts? I was using a BEGI intake manifold w/ the 70mm throttle body. They are currently off.
<3 Ed
I've got a 1997 Miata with a 1999 head. My mechanic was returning the 1997 intake manifold and throttle body, but found out it didn't mate up with the 1999 head.
Question:
We need to know if MY97 throttle body and EGR valve will fit on MY99 intake manifold. Will fuel rails clear, as well? If so, need to source MY99 intake manifold.
ARGH! I knew OBDII emissions would be a pain. Damn you state of Virginia!!!!
Any other thoughts? I was using a BEGI intake manifold w/ the 70mm throttle body. They are currently off.
<3 Ed
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08-24-2010, 07:02 PM
#3
Two things you can do.
1: You can actually redrill your 97 intake manifold to fit on the 99 head. I've seen it done. Didn't look too optimal, but it apparently can be made to seal and work. And that eliminates a whole lot of problems as far as the 97 OBDII computer goes.
And I speak from experience here. The 97 ECU can be bitchy about any tiny thing. Mine took ages to get to the ready state with the 99 manifold installed. I think for emissions, redrilling the 97's mounting holes and plopping it on the 99 head would be best.
2) You can choose to make the 97 stuff fit on your 99 manifold.
a) 97 throttle body on 99 manifold: fits fine. No adapter needed. I never even had a 99 TB on my 97 w/ 99 motor. The 97 bolted on fine.
b) 97 EGR on 99 manifold. It can be made to fit. The holes are exactly the same, it's just a matter of getting the BIG 97 EGR valve to fit on the side of the manifold. You can either grind down the side of the manifold or make a mounting plate out of about 1/8" steel. I made a mounting plate. Sealed fine.
c) The EGR pipe. This is a huge pain in the ***. You'll need your 94-97 pipe. And you'll get to bend it. It can be bent to fit pretty readily, but it will take multiple install/removals and walks back and forth between your bench vise and the engine bay. Even with the engine out of the car, this is a pain.
And that's about it. Obviously, the fuel rails are not compatible. 99 rail goes on 99 manifold. 97 rail goes on 97 manifold.
1: You can actually redrill your 97 intake manifold to fit on the 99 head. I've seen it done. Didn't look too optimal, but it apparently can be made to seal and work. And that eliminates a whole lot of problems as far as the 97 OBDII computer goes.
And I speak from experience here. The 97 ECU can be bitchy about any tiny thing. Mine took ages to get to the ready state with the 99 manifold installed. I think for emissions, redrilling the 97's mounting holes and plopping it on the 99 head would be best.
2) You can choose to make the 97 stuff fit on your 99 manifold.
a) 97 throttle body on 99 manifold: fits fine. No adapter needed. I never even had a 99 TB on my 97 w/ 99 motor. The 97 bolted on fine.
b) 97 EGR on 99 manifold. It can be made to fit. The holes are exactly the same, it's just a matter of getting the BIG 97 EGR valve to fit on the side of the manifold. You can either grind down the side of the manifold or make a mounting plate out of about 1/8" steel. I made a mounting plate. Sealed fine.
c) The EGR pipe. This is a huge pain in the ***. You'll need your 94-97 pipe. And you'll get to bend it. It can be bent to fit pretty readily, but it will take multiple install/removals and walks back and forth between your bench vise and the engine bay. Even with the engine out of the car, this is a pain.
And that's about it. Obviously, the fuel rails are not compatible. 99 rail goes on 99 manifold. 97 rail goes on 97 manifold.
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08-24-2010, 07:35 PM
#5
Even I can find someone who will pass my car for 100 bux if need be. Go use your people skills.
And as a side note: WOOT for NJ inspection. My car passed now with flying colors by running an "inspection" timing map Paul made. NJ dropped all safety inspection and now its just emissions. Paul's gutted machine even passed at the inspection. Or should I say: Paul's former car "the machine".
And as a side note: WOOT for NJ inspection. My car passed now with flying colors by running an "inspection" timing map Paul made. NJ dropped all safety inspection and now its just emissions. Paul's gutted machine even passed at the inspection. Or should I say: Paul's former car "the machine".
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08-24-2010, 11:31 PM
#7
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Two things you can do.
1: You can actually redrill your 97 intake manifold to fit on the 99 head. I've seen it done. Didn't look too optimal, but it apparently can be made to seal and work. And that eliminates a whole lot of problems as far as the 97 OBDII computer goes.
And I speak from experience here. The 97 ECU can be bitchy about any tiny thing. Mine took ages to get to the ready state with the 99 manifold installed. I think for emissions, redrilling the 97's mounting holes and plopping it on the 99 head would be best.
2) You can choose to make the 97 stuff fit on your 99 manifold.
a) 97 throttle body on 99 manifold: fits fine. No adapter needed. I never even had a 99 TB on my 97 w/ 99 motor. The 97 bolted on fine.
b) 97 EGR on 99 manifold. It can be made to fit. The holes are exactly the same, it's just a matter of getting the BIG 97 EGR valve to fit on the side of the manifold. You can either grind down the side of the manifold or make a mounting plate out of about 1/8" steel. I made a mounting plate. Sealed fine.
c) The EGR pipe. This is a huge pain in the ***. You'll need your 94-97 pipe. And you'll get to bend it. It can be bent to fit pretty readily, but it will take multiple install/removals and walks back and forth between your bench vise and the engine bay. Even with the engine out of the car, this is a pain.
And that's about it. Obviously, the fuel rails are not compatible. 99 rail goes on 99 manifold. 97 rail goes on 97 manifold.
1: You can actually redrill your 97 intake manifold to fit on the 99 head. I've seen it done. Didn't look too optimal, but it apparently can be made to seal and work. And that eliminates a whole lot of problems as far as the 97 OBDII computer goes.
And I speak from experience here. The 97 ECU can be bitchy about any tiny thing. Mine took ages to get to the ready state with the 99 manifold installed. I think for emissions, redrilling the 97's mounting holes and plopping it on the 99 head would be best.
2) You can choose to make the 97 stuff fit on your 99 manifold.
a) 97 throttle body on 99 manifold: fits fine. No adapter needed. I never even had a 99 TB on my 97 w/ 99 motor. The 97 bolted on fine.
b) 97 EGR on 99 manifold. It can be made to fit. The holes are exactly the same, it's just a matter of getting the BIG 97 EGR valve to fit on the side of the manifold. You can either grind down the side of the manifold or make a mounting plate out of about 1/8" steel. I made a mounting plate. Sealed fine.
c) The EGR pipe. This is a huge pain in the ***. You'll need your 94-97 pipe. And you'll get to bend it. It can be bent to fit pretty readily, but it will take multiple install/removals and walks back and forth between your bench vise and the engine bay. Even with the engine out of the car, this is a pain.
And that's about it. Obviously, the fuel rails are not compatible. 99 rail goes on 99 manifold. 97 rail goes on 97 manifold.
Thanks a bunch! I'll get Dan (aka Rocker Dan, good friends with rappadan) to read this thread!
Even I can find someone who will pass my car for 100 bux if need be. Go use your people skills.
And as a side note: WOOT for NJ inspection. My car passed now with flying colors by running an "inspection" timing map Paul made. NJ dropped all safety inspection and now its just emissions. Paul's gutted machine even passed at the inspection. Or should I say: Paul's former car "the machine".
And as a side note: WOOT for NJ inspection. My car passed now with flying colors by running an "inspection" timing map Paul made. NJ dropped all safety inspection and now its just emissions. Paul's gutted machine even passed at the inspection. Or should I say: Paul's former car "the machine".
Unfortunately Northern VA + OBDII = good luck!
I have no problem attaching a $100 bill to a PostIt with my VIN. Unfortunately, the emissions guys have a LOT to lose.
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08-25-2010, 07:41 AM
#9
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Showing a little ghey love for my fellow Miata owners. I figured it's better to charm the masses then do a Hustler move:
"Okay you pussies. You will now figure this out for me now or I will ban you. The first person to do this and pay me to fix my car will be free from punishment. I will spare you my big Texas hog-rapin' prison style."
or something like that.
"Okay you pussies. You will now figure this out for me now or I will ban you. The first person to do this and pay me to fix my car will be free from punishment. I will spare you my big Texas hog-rapin' prison style."
or something like that.
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08-25-2010, 08:59 AM
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WAIT you have a 99 head? FML, I would have totally done all the work converting you back to stock for the IM.
You need to find a 99 IM and fuel rail. When you put on the fuel rail install your FPR off your old fule rail onto the 99 fuel rail so that you can have a return system.
As said TB fits fine, I am running my 94 TB on my 99 IM with no problems.
I might have a spare EGR pipe I can send up if you want someone to practice bending.
You need to find a 99 IM and fuel rail. When you put on the fuel rail install your FPR off your old fule rail onto the 99 fuel rail so that you can have a return system.
As said TB fits fine, I am running my 94 TB on my 99 IM with no problems.
I might have a spare EGR pipe I can send up if you want someone to practice bending.
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08-25-2010, 09:46 AM
#12
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WAIT you have a 99 head? FML, I would have totally done all the work converting you back to stock for the IM.
You need to find a 99 IM and fuel rail. When you put on the fuel rail install your FPR off your old fule rail onto the 99 fuel rail so that you can have a return system.
As said TB fits fine, I am running my 94 TB on my 99 IM with no problems.
I might have a spare EGR pipe I can send up if you want someone to practice bending.
You need to find a 99 IM and fuel rail. When you put on the fuel rail install your FPR off your old fule rail onto the 99 fuel rail so that you can have a return system.
As said TB fits fine, I am running my 94 TB on my 99 IM with no problems.
I might have a spare EGR pipe I can send up if you want someone to practice bending.
Cool, thx Lars! You can send it to Andrewtech:
8029 Cessna Ave, suite C
Gaithersburg, MD 20879
Attn: Ed's Miata
PM me how much I need to paypal you. I will get Brandon from TurboXS to bend/fab anything that needs some fenagling.
Webby - I <3 you too! When are you coming back down? Bring some A6s next time. 225s. Hehehe. I may actually tub the Miata if I have extra cash. I hate to carve it up, but I now have a spare car.
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08-27-2010, 08:39 AM
#13
Foofer, I hope you got your problem solved, I'm glad I have a 90 to get around the obd2 trouble. Sorry for polluting your thread, but...
I'm not going to be back again this year. But, there is impending trouble with at least one of the two really good Tour/Div/Pro-level sites for next year. Seneca Army Depot may be inaccessible to autocrossing next year, and that was the site of this year's National Tour up here in the N.E. So, I'd have an inkling that FedEx will be on next year's schedule at least once again for one of our big events in NEDiv. I'll get you back out to a big again next year!
I'm on 255/40-13 A6 now, no problem with fender clearance, but they definitely won't clear your brakes! My car is a mid-prep and mid-pack CSP car now.
I'm not going to be back again this year. But, there is impending trouble with at least one of the two really good Tour/Div/Pro-level sites for next year. Seneca Army Depot may be inaccessible to autocrossing next year, and that was the site of this year's National Tour up here in the N.E. So, I'd have an inkling that FedEx will be on next year's schedule at least once again for one of our big events in NEDiv. I'll get you back out to a big again next year!
I'm on 255/40-13 A6 now, no problem with fender clearance, but they definitely won't clear your brakes! My car is a mid-prep and mid-pack CSP car now.
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08-30-2010, 04:57 PM
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Foofer, I hope you got your problem solved, I'm glad I have a 90 to get around the obd2 trouble. Sorry for polluting your thread, but...
I'm not going to be back again this year. But, there is impending trouble with at least one of the two really good Tour/Div/Pro-level sites for next year. Seneca Army Depot may be inaccessible to autocrossing next year, and that was the site of this year's National Tour up here in the N.E. So, I'd have an inkling that FedEx will be on next year's schedule at least once again for one of our big events in NEDiv. I'll get you back out to a big again next year!
I'm on 255/40-13 A6 now, no problem with fender clearance, but they definitely won't clear your brakes! My car is a mid-prep and mid-pack CSP car now.
I'm not going to be back again this year. But, there is impending trouble with at least one of the two really good Tour/Div/Pro-level sites for next year. Seneca Army Depot may be inaccessible to autocrossing next year, and that was the site of this year's National Tour up here in the N.E. So, I'd have an inkling that FedEx will be on next year's schedule at least once again for one of our big events in NEDiv. I'll get you back out to a big again next year!
I'm on 255/40-13 A6 now, no problem with fender clearance, but they definitely won't clear your brakes! My car is a mid-prep and mid-pack CSP car now.
I'm currently waiting for Dan to work on my car in the next day or so. We got the 99 intake manifold from Panic Motorsports. Very quick turnaround, thx guys! I think it was considerably cheaper than Planet Miata, who I've had great experiences with in the past.
Will update later this week.
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08-31-2010, 07:53 AM
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shuiend mentioned that I should get Braineack to tackle the VICS. Sorry, I didn't know what that was (Variable Intake Control System, I believe). Sooo, is this something that we should look into making work? It appears to be something that opens/closes a resonance chamber in the manifold partway down the runners.
Looking for the easiest solution to get my car to pass emissions, make it easy to tune, etc. Something relatively low-maintenance and low chance of future failure.
Looking for the easiest solution to get my car to pass emissions, make it easy to tune, etc. Something relatively low-maintenance and low chance of future failure.
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