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Old 09-08-2014, 03:50 PM   #20861
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I currently have a high deductible health plan.
When I paid for my own insurance, I also had a relatively high deductable (I think it was around $5k, but I don't recall exactly.

Now that I am back on a company-sponsored plan (don't get me started on why I think that's BS in and of itself), my deductible is $500, and I have no choice in that matter.

But this is all minutae. The very fact that the first words which the nurse-practitioner at CVS asks me when I go in for my $25 flu shot utters are "do your have your insurance card?" is evidence of a pervasive cultural assumption that "someone else" is responsible for all of my healthcare costs.

Did I go ahead and hand her the card? Of course I did. Pragmatically, I know that even though it would be "the right thing" for me to pay that $25 out of pocket, my insurance premium isn't going to change one bit whether I do or not. Since the system is already broken, and I am powerless to change it as a lone individual, it's in my best interest to just play along. It's a classic Tragedy of the Commons problem.






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It started when people that had kids we're shocked at what routine care was costing, and demanded more from the policies.
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Old 09-08-2014, 04:06 PM   #20862
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I'm just gonna throw out there that we pay taxes to subsidize the megacorporation commercialized corn that is used to make the processed foods (particularly sweeteners) that are making the diabetes in our children and grandparents and fat cousins. Which in turn leads to higher healthcare costs.
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Old 09-08-2014, 04:20 PM   #20863
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I'm just gonna throw out there that we pay taxes to subsidize the megacorporation commercialized corn that is used to make the processed foods (particularly sweeteners) that are making the diabetes in our children and grandparents and fat cousins. Which in turn leads to higher healthcare costs.
I stipulate that the above is true, and I ask the following question:

On a unit-equivalent basis, and all else being equal, are foods sweetened with cane sugar less fattening, or less contributory to health problem such as the diabeetus, than foods sweetened with corn syrup?
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Old 09-08-2014, 05:34 PM   #20864
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I stipulate that the above is true, and I ask the following question:

On a unit-equivalent basis, and all else being equal, are foods sweetened with cane sugar less fattening, or less contributory to health problem such as the diabeetus, than foods sweetened with corn syrup?
is this a question you already suspect you know the answer to?

I'd say the question is not very relevant because both are pretty much the same in terms of chemical composition, at least from a large scale dietary standpoint.

The question you might want to ask is how does the sugar subisdy compare to the corn? To which I would answer: it is probably less than 5% of the total size. Of course the subsequent question is "how much corn is used for processed sweeteners?" to which I'd say: Why don't we ******* grow something other than corn?
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Old 09-08-2014, 05:43 PM   #20865
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Why not grow MORE corn and convert the entire country over to E85?
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Old 09-08-2014, 05:43 PM   #20866
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Double post somewhere around here...need a new phone!

Last edited by Enginerd; 09-09-2014 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 09-08-2014, 06:11 PM   #20867
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^^ Hope he didn't have a health care emergency with no insurance.
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Old 09-08-2014, 07:42 PM   #20868
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
is this a question you already suspect you know the answer to?
I ask the question from two perspectives.

On the one hand, while I do have what I believe to be a correct opinion on the matter, experience had taught me that my own belief in matters of health and nutrition, be it right or wrong, is often in the minority, especially when political influences are present.

On the other, I found the time of your post to be quite interesting. In particular, the use of terms such as "mega corporation" and "processed floods" in a context of government subsidy lends itself to an interpretation that the reader is meant to infer (without supporting evidence) that HFCS is uniquely harmful to health as opposed to some economically viable yet non-subsidized alternative, and that it is therefore part of a government conspiracy to make everyone sick and increase reliance upon Tyne healthcare system.

And I find that sort of deliberate vilification interesting.
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Old 09-08-2014, 08:19 PM   #20869
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I just recently changed health insurance, and I can say this: the difference between a plan that had preventative care and those that didn't was about $200/month. 90% of preventative care costs do not go to me.
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Old 09-08-2014, 10:11 PM   #20870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I ask the question from two perspectives.

On the one hand, while I do have what I believe to be a correct opinion on the matter, experience had taught me that my own belief in matters of health and nutrition, be it right or wrong, is often in the minority, especially when political influences are present.

On the other, I found the time of your post to be quite interesting. In particular, the use of terms such as "mega corporation" and "processed floods" in a context of government subsidy lends itself to an interpretation that the reader is meant to infer (without supporting evidence) that HFCS is uniquely harmful to health as opposed to some economically viable yet non-subsidized alternative, and that it is therefore part of a government conspiracy to make everyone sick and increase reliance upon Tyne healthcare system.

And I find that sort of deliberate vilification interesting.
Sorry, the alternative wasn't intended to be "natural sugar, yay!" but rather green vegetables that can also be farmed where monocultural corn is farmed instead. They aren't just better for you, but, if farmed correctly, can repair the land that was raped of nutrients by the single crop.

And I wasn't intending to imply it was a government conspiracy. Rather it is the end result of some serious lobbying by aforementioned megacorps like Monsanto and Cargill and the like to preserve their own way of life. Certainly the corn farmers aren't winning--they're in debt buying giant combines to farm corn all day to make a buck.

Note that "economically viable" may not even be relevant here. The artificially inexpensive corn-based processed foods make vegetables seem expensive by comparison. However if the system was rebalanced to favor variety instead of mostly corn, I suspect those prices would seem less high relative to cheaper processed food.

On an unrelated note, I ate both swiss chard and corn on the cob for dinner. Sweet corn is somewhat exempt from the above issue of subsidy because it's actually eaten by humans directly.

If you want to know more:
King Corn (2007) | Watch the Full Documentary Online

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Old 09-08-2014, 10:35 PM   #20871
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^^ I'm going to assume you've seen "Food Inc." as well, yes?

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Old 09-09-2014, 12:07 AM   #20872
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
...corn on the cob for dinner. Sweet corn is somewhat exempt from the above issue of subsidy because it's actually eaten by humans directly.
I recently saw a corn on the cob special on the morning news. The chef they had on said that the best corn on the cob is only dipped in boiling water for about 30 seconds, and after that something or other happens with the sugars and starches and it loses all the best flavors. To think I've been cooking it wrong all these years!
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Old 09-09-2014, 09:20 AM   #20873
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speaking of food subsidies:

My 14-Hour Search for the End of TGI Friday's Endless Appetizers

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Last Monday TGI Friday's unveiled a new promotion (available at many TGI Friday's locations, but none on the island of Manhattan) whereby customers can gorge themselves on unlimited appetizers—without fear of punishment, embarrassment, or ostracization—for a one-time payment of $10. The promotion is called "Endless Appetizers."

The day after "Endless Appetizers" was announced, I went to TGI Friday's in the Brooklyn neighborhood of Sheepshead Bay. I wanted to challenge the hubris of a company co-opting the infinite for a marketing gimmick. I wanted to demand accountability from copywriters.

I wanted to call their bluff and eat appetizers until they kicked me out, to seek the limit of this supposedly limitless publicity stunt.

I soon learned the limit does not exist.

...

11:34 a.m. My first plate arrives.

...

1:21 a.m. I arrive home and throw up a little bit, but not as much as I expected.
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Old 09-09-2014, 10:48 AM   #20874
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^^ I'm going to assume you've seen "Food Inc." as well, yes?

I had pre-release access to it and saved it to my HD... but didn't watch it until a few weeks ago.

My wife works on sustainable ag issues. I run into a lot of food production movies and people in my spare time.

EDIT: sorry, that was "Fed Up" I had a pre-release of. I did see Food Inc though.

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I recently saw a corn on the cob special on the morning news. The chef they had on said that the best corn on the cob is only dipped in boiling water for about 30 seconds, and after that something or other happens with the sugars and starches and it loses all the best flavors. To think I've been cooking it wrong all these years!
So they want you to eat it pretty much raw?

I grill mine over medium heat for 15-20 minutes in the husk, rotating every 4-5 minutes. It comes out sweet and has a nice snap when I bite into it.

also: corn holders are for suckers.

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Old 09-09-2014, 11:39 AM   #20875
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post

I grill mine over medium heat for 15-20 minutes in the husk, rotating every 4-5 minutes. It comes out sweet and has a nice snap when I bite into it.
I steam mine de-husked for about 10 minutes. Every time I try it with the husk on, the husk flavor goes into the corn.

Also good boiled in sugared water for about 5 minutes.
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Old 09-09-2014, 11:39 AM   #20876
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Sorry, the alternative wasn't intended to be "natural sugar, yay!" but rather green vegetables
(...)
And I wasn't intending to imply it was a government conspiracy. Rather it is the end result of some serious lobbying by aforementioned megacorps like Monsanto and Cargill and the like to preserve their own way of life.
(...)
Note that "economically viable" may not even be relevant here. The artificially inexpensive corn-based processed foods make vegetables seem expensive by comparison. However if the system was rebalanced to favor variety instead of mostly corn, I suspect those prices would seem less high relative to cheaper processed food.
Hmm. This merits pondering...

Insofar as consumer preference for sweet, corn-based, pre-prepared foods as opposed to green vegetables, I decided to do a quick, unscientific study. A casual survey of current advertised prices for a few common products at ShopRite.com (the website of the chain supermarket nearest me) reveals the following:


Solids:
Corn-based:
Kellogg's Frosted Flakes of Corn cereal: $3.36 / lb ($3.99 / 19 oz)
Fritos Original Corn Chips: $5.72 / lb ($3.49 / 9.75 oz)
Entenmann's Corn Muffins: $6.69 / lb ($4.39 / six 1.75 oz muffins)
Veg-based:
Grimmway Farms Carrot Chips: $1.99 / lb ($1.99 / 16 oz)
Birds Eye Broccoli - Tender Cuts (frozen): $1.76 / lb ($1.59 / 14.4 oz)
Green Beans (fresh, bulk): $1.49 / lb ($1.49 / lb)
Brussels Sprouts (fresh, bulk): $1.99 / lb ($1.99 / lb)


Liquids:
CS/HFCS-based:
Aunt Jemima Pancake Syrup: $3.99 / qt ($2.99 / 24 oz)
non-CS/HFCS:
Gunters Pure Clover Honey: $6.64 / qt ($2.49 / 12 oz)
Izzy's Organic Blue Agave: $7.48 / qt ($5.49 / 23.5 oz)
So there's no question that in terms of liquid pancake topping, table syrup made from CS/HFCS significantly undercuts non-corn-based toppings by a wide margin, roughly 50%.

But comparing solid foodstuffs, I'm not seeing the same trend. In fact, green vegetables in this sample are averaging $1.80 / lb, whereas subsidized, processed, packaged megacorporation foods are coming in at around $5.25 / lb, nearly 3x as much as the (presumably) subsidized, corn-free alternatives.

I think that in terms of snack-type foods, it's fairly safe to say that economics is not playing a large role in driving consumer preference, such as it may exist, towards sweet / salty processed, corn-based foods as opposed to green vegetables.






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Looks interesting- I'm downloading it now, will watch on the ride home this evening. I'm hoping that it's slightly more objective and less emotion-based than Food Inc was. I will attempt to approach it with an open mind.

Also, I'm with you as to grilling sweet corn in the husk. Soak it in water for an hour or two, slap it on the top deck of the grill over medium heat, and roast it for about 10 minutes. Good stuff.






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When I was in college, my roommate and I decided to test the limits of Fazoli's unlimited breadsticks policy, with similar results. It is an experience which we do not speak of often.
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Old 09-09-2014, 01:31 PM   #20877
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^Sorry I was again leaving out important information.

calculate on a calorie basis.

Frosted Flakes has about 1400 calories per box (not sure what size you had) at $3.99 or 350 cal/dollar

Broccoli bag above is 150 calories per bag at $1.59 or 94 cal/dollar

Brussels Sprouts work out to about 97 I think? I'm rushing because this isn't my job.

Here's some other dataz:
What Does 200 Calories Cost? The Economics of Obesity
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:38 PM   #20878
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Paul Yaw has a ton of articles he has written on the injector dynamics website and after reading through several I have been dying laughing at this guy and his sense of humor. No bullshit, no suck up to the customer mentality, it is beautiful.

If you have time and like reading with a lot of math and science, you'll enjoy his articles.

The Library - Injector Dynamics
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:57 PM   #20879
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2002 custom Mazda Miata


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2002 Mazda miata 106,xxx miles, I am this has been my toy for 5 years and I am buying a boat and need the extra cash not in a hurry to sell. Car makes 251 WHP with nitrous will take on any thing around an autocross track, Tastefully modified most replacement parts are all REAL carbon fiber custom lotus shift **** intake, headders, exaust car is in perfect physical shape with a fresh repaint 6 months ago over $20,000 dollars invested and $12,000 dollars in recent maintenance work.. Car comes will all service records of both mods and aftermarket work, been played with but well maintained TITLE IN HAND
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Old 09-09-2014, 03:01 PM   #20880
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$12,000 dollars in recent maintenance work
I don't think I could even spend 12k in factory OEM maintenance parts if I tried.
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