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Old 06-15-2011, 12:04 PM   #8421
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If the bible teaches us that man is evil by birth, then it teaches us that man has no will; that man has no power to change it. If man has no will, man can be neither good nor evil. We are robots who are self-aware.
Robots, or just actors who behave in accordance with their nature?

To not behave in accordance with one's nature is to act randomly, to choose without reason between two equally possible outcomes.
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:50 PM   #8422
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To think is an act of choice. The function of your vital organs is not, including your brain, but you have to choose to think and act.

I define "one's nature" that of: a conscious or deliberate decision or choice must be made.

One does not act randomly, you have to initiate it, sustain it and to bear responsibility for its results.

You have the will to decide whether you will choose the right goals and values or not. You are free to make the wrong choice but not free from it being a sucess. You are free to evade reality; to unfocus your mind and walk off a cliff but not free to avoid the abyss you refused to see and act upon.

To choose or not to choose, to think or not the think, to live or not to live. NOT to be or not to be.
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:16 PM   #8423
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(a bunch of stuff)
I don't see how any of this is contradicted by the notion of "original sin" or the general concept of redemption as taught by the Christian bible. The assumption that man does have free will is a fundamental underlying tenet of the entire ideology.

You say "man is born evil and thus had no choices."

I say "I was born a poor, black child in rural Mississippi. Today, my brothers and sisters all still live in poverty. However I went to school, steered clear of gamblin' and alcohol, and made something of myself. Today, I own a chain of plumbing supply stores in St. Louis and have my name on the new wing of the local hospital."
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:32 PM   #8424
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His evil is that he is man, he guilt is that he lives.

It demands that we are born evil then to define good as that of which we are not.

How can you define man as evil, but then demand that man practices good, which is defined as impossible for him to practice?

The evils for which God damns man are reason, morality, creativeness, joy—all the cardinal values of man's existence. If we had existed without those concpets before we ate the apple, we were not men.

Last edited by Braineack; 06-15-2011 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:38 PM   #8425
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:48 PM   #8426
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If the bible teaches us that man is evil by birth, then it teaches us that man has no will; that man has no power to change it. If man has no will, man can be neither good nor evil. We are robots who are self-aware.
You need to determine the nature of evil, sin, and what the original sin is.

In classical christian mythology: lucifer was gods prime angel, the angel of light, his right hand man and captian among captians. His main folly, what got him kicked out of paradise, was in assuming he was as powerful as god, and was just as worthy of being worshiped. Several angels fell to earth with lucifer. This is sin. The essence of evil is the drive to either try nullifying god's power and influence, or to assume that power to something else internal or external. Such as buddhism, atheism or druidism.

Humans were created in "God's image", it's debatable how literal or metaphoric to take that description. Some places teach it's only physical, others teach it's a spiritual or emotional likeness. What got adam and eve kicked out of eden was not talking to a serpent or eating a forbidden apple, but rather having the hubris to eat from "the tree of knowledge of good and evil". Basically the humans original sin truly was reaching beyond a simple life and becoming aware of our own shame.
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:56 PM   #8427
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If human's were created in god's image-I am god.
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:59 PM   #8428
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If human's were created in god's image-I am god.

The image of an F1 car. Think it has a chance to pole in budapest?

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Old 06-15-2011, 02:10 PM   #8429
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If human's were created in god's image-I am god.
So, if I create a small clay figurine in your image, that figurine is you?


edit: my phone rang before I had a chance to hit send, and Ben beat me to it with a much better example.
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Old 06-15-2011, 02:25 PM   #8430
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Are there any openly gay men on this forum or on any Miata forum? The only person I've ever seen defend homosexuality is y8s but he's married to a girl. It could be a beard.
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Old 06-15-2011, 03:42 PM   #8431
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Oh ******* damnit don't make me unsubscribe from ramble on.
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Old 06-15-2011, 04:01 PM   #8432
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1. That welfare or communitarian economic systems actually do help the poor more than a free market system does, and

2. That "religious" people ought to make charity the job of the state, rather than the duty of the church.
I'm just saying its ironic that religious people don't support programs that make life easier on the less fortunate, not talkin' about hand-outs.

What about when religious people try to get the state to make laws according their morals and ethical codes (gay marriage, abortions etc.).
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Old 06-15-2011, 04:56 PM   #8433
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I'm just saying its ironic that religious people don't support programs that make life easier on the less fortunate, not talkin' about hand-outs.
Salvation Army.

It's ironic that many people support programs, like minimum wage, under the guise that it is beneficial to the less fortunate. Studies conclude that everytime there is an increase in minumum wage, unployment also increases-it most signicantly hurts the black community.

It's ironic that many people support programs, like the war on poverty under the guise that it is beneficial to the less fortunate. It is officially our most expensive war to date.

It's ironic that many people support programs, under the guise that it is beneficial to a miniorty group, at the same time exploiting and denouncing another miniority group to benefit the other.


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What about when religious people try to get the state to make laws according their morals and ethical codes (gay marriage, abortions etc.).
Those are both hard topics, and shouldn't be exclusive to just the religious gop.

There are various legal ramifications (both positive and potentially negative) that come hand-in-hand with gay marriage; this is beyond any moral standing one may have of the practice.

Abortion to many, and again not exclusive to people of religion, is not about woman's right, but murder.
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Old 06-15-2011, 05:25 PM   #8434
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Why do you ******* always have to turn the random ramble thread into a political and/or religious debate??!?!! WHY!?!
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Old 06-15-2011, 05:31 PM   #8435
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metaphysics > all
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Old 06-15-2011, 06:35 PM   #8436
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I must be the exception. God didn't make me.
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Old 06-15-2011, 06:53 PM   #8437
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I must be the exception. God didn't make me.
nope, I did.



Who's yo daddy?
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Old 06-15-2011, 07:12 PM   #8438
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Why do you ******* always have to turn the random ramble thread into a political and/or religious debate??!?!! WHY!?!
This.

God is real btw.
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Old 06-15-2011, 08:01 PM   #8439
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Those are both hard topics, and shouldn't be exclusive to just the religious gop.

There are various legal ramifications (both positive and potentially negative) that come hand-in-hand with gay marriage; this is beyond any moral standing one may have of the practice.

Abortion to many, and again not exclusive to people of religion, is not about woman's right, but murder.
I don't mean to say they are just topics that religious people have strong feelings about, just making a point.

BTW 18 years after Roe vs Wade, the prison population dropped. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.
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Old 06-15-2011, 08:53 PM   #8440
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LOL @ religion.

Time to move on, people.
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