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Old 02-05-2014, 02:35 PM   #4121
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Bought most of mine between .04 and .06 a round. Mix of Blazer 40gr, CCI Standard and a few other Winchester/CCI boxes.

Hurm.
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:41 PM   #4122
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I'll sell it to you cheap, $1,000 + shipping

I need to check the production dates, it may be been from some time in the 90's. This is leftover from when I used to shoot bullseye and falling plate semi-competitively with the gun club. I'd shoot anywhere from 250 to 500 rounds a week of .22 and buying in bulk made sense. Like so many things, those as skills I still wish I had maintained. I still have my Hammerli in the safe, and I still regret selling my Ruger MKII.
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:56 PM   #4123
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I'll sell it to you cheap, $1,000 + shipping

I need to check the production dates, it may be been from some time in the 90's. This is leftover from when I used to shoot bullseye and falling plate semi-competitively with the gun club. I'd shoot anywhere from 250 to 500 rounds a week of .22 and buying in bulk made sense. Like so many things, those as skills I still wish I had maintained. I still have my Hammerli in the safe, and I still regret selling my Ruger MKII.
My MKII will never leave my ownership... 10" barrel hilariousness with reddot and a Tac-Lite barrel for more relaxed shooting. Also modified internals with a nice crisp 2lb pull.
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:00 PM   #4124
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It might not have been the most accurate rim fire pistol ever but I have always regretted selling my modified Walther P22. Sold it to buy one of the new Ruger SR22's. Hated the pistol and sold it a couple of months later. Still haven't purchased another 22 pistol (can't afford the ammo!).
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:06 PM   #4125
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Damn MKII, I'll probably never find a nice one ever again. Are the MKIII any good? I haven't shot one and I've seen mixed reviews.

The P22 is a goddamn mess. There is literally an entire guide online on how to modify your P22 so that it will actually function. The early ones are absolute garbage, later ones are supposed to at least actually work.

I still want a PPK though.
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Old 02-05-2014, 04:06 PM   #4126
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My reloading stock is slowly increasing. At the local gunshows lately have bought 600 9mm 115gr Remington FMJ's ($11/100), and last night discovered the 2nd's at Rocky Mountain Rocky Mountain Reloading

$77shipped/1000 115gr plated FMJ's.

Next purchase is 1000rds of (probably Speer) HP's so I can start loading for SHTF ammo.

Also doing homework on bulk .223 bullets for SHTF... thinking whatever 55gr Varmint HP's on sale will work... about .10 per. I'm finding bulk 62gr military pulls for .12 cents... gotta have a few mags of that stuff on hand.

Also have been buying the **** out of buckshot when I find it cheap... can never have too many shells!

My goal is (with the exception of rimfire)... never to buy ammo in a store EVER AGAIN!
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Old 02-05-2014, 04:44 PM   #4127
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The P22 is a goddamn mess. There is literally an entire guide online on how to modify your P22 so that it will actually function. The early ones are absolute garbage, later ones are supposed to at least actually work.
I have yet to do all the mods to my P22, as long as I was shooting CCI Minimag through it, it always worked great. If I switched to any other bulk ammo it would start to suck. It was still a blast to shoot. One of these days I will go ahead and do the mods to it. Maybe around that time I will be able to actually find some .22 ammo.

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I still want a PPK though.
I own a US made PPKS. It is my absolutely favorite gun to shoot, and was my primary carry. One day I am planning on buying a German made one.

Walthers are by far my favorite pistols, for whatever reason everyone I have ever used has felt just about perfect in my hands.
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Old 02-05-2014, 04:56 PM   #4128
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I wish I had the god damn patience for reloading my own rounds. I have tons of brass that I saved from my shooting days but I am just hoarding it atm.


mostly .40 and .327 Federal (since the round is still new)
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:09 PM   #4129
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Damn MKII, I'll probably never find a nice one ever again. Are the MKIII any good? I haven't shot one and I've seen mixed reviews.

The P22 is a goddamn mess. There is literally an entire guide online on how to modify your P22 so that it will actually function. The early ones are absolute garbage, later ones are supposed to at least actually work.

I still want a PPK though.
Couple simple mods to make the work just like the older models. Mostly just ditching the silly extra safety items that add more more place to clean to prevent malfunctions. Had one, liked it, but didn't find i really 'needed' another MK series with the MKII not going anywhere.

The thing I like about the MKII is that it eats anything and is very accurate (10" barrel). For kicks I bench rested my (with a wood clamp :P ) and was doing 25yard dime sized clusters with cheap bulk .22 and a red dot that basically covers a decent sized bullseye.
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:44 AM   #4130
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I have yet to do all the mods to my P22, as long as I was shooting CCI Minimag through it, it always worked great. If I switched to any other bulk ammo it would start to suck. It was still a blast to shoot. One of these days I will go ahead and do the mods to it. Maybe around that time I will be able to actually find some .22 ammo.

Walthers are by far my favorite pistols, for whatever reason everyone I have ever used has felt just about perfect in my hands.
My experience is the same (with how they feel in your hand). I did all the online mods to mine and it worked great (I think it was a 2009 model?). A friend and I put an entire brick a week through it for 2 straight years (that's 52,000 rounds in two years) at the indoor range. Some ammo didn't work the best so we would switch to another brand or lot number of the same brand. Only cleaned it maybe once per month and it was always very accurate. When I sold it and started shooting the Ruger SR22 all the magic was gone and I didn't renew my membership to the range. I believed all the online reviews about how the SR22 was a much better pistol than the "horrible shitty always need modifications" P22. Since I could sell the used P22 for more than a new SR22 cost I figured I would get a free upgrade. Big mistake...
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Old 02-07-2014, 10:29 AM   #4131
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I still have my Hammerli in the safe...
Pics? I'll try to dig up one of our smith 41, which has basically been put on ice because of the lack of good ammo. It's incredibly picky about what it eats.

For you guys who don't roll your own, I can vouch for Southwest Ammunition | Manufacturer of High Performance Ammunition. They usually have a group buy going, and crank our some very high quality stuff.
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Old 02-07-2014, 11:25 AM   #4132
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My experience is the same (with how they feel in your hand). I did all the online mods to mine and it worked great (I think it was a 2009 model?). A friend and I put an entire brick a week through it for 2 straight years (that's 52,000 rounds in two years) at the indoor range. Some ammo didn't work the best so we would switch to another brand or lot number of the same brand. Only cleaned it maybe once per month and it was always very accurate. When I sold it and started shooting the Ruger SR22 all the magic was gone and I didn't renew my membership to the range. I believed all the online reviews about how the SR22 was a much better pistol than the "horrible shitty always need modifications" P22. Since I could sell the used P22 for more than a new SR22 cost I figured I would get a free upgrade. Big mistake...
I think yours was maybe a bit older then an 09 model. I remember going to the range with you one summer either 08/09. You had the 5inch barrell which definately was a bit more accurate then mine with the shorter barrell.
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Old 02-07-2014, 07:42 PM   #4133
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Went to my LGS today... bought 2x 1lb bottles of H335 for $21. This powder is a benchmark for .223 loads.

For info, 1lb=7000grains. A 25.0gr charge is generally accepted as "perfect" for most 16" barrel AR's shooting 55gr bullets with H335. After tax, that's .08cents worth of powder per round.

Primers are .03cents each, and quality plinking/varmint bullets are available for .10cents (sometimes less in bulk).

So that's .21cents of consumables per rd without a sweat, buying minimum amounts. You could easily get that down to a few more cents (maybe as much as .16-.17cents) if you bought in 10k round increments.

Bulk LC brass can be as cheap as $60/1000 cases, which if you're going to assume 6-7 reloads per case, is less than .01cent per reload.

The absolute cheapest I'm able to find .223 brass ammo is .36-.37cents (after shipping or tax or whatever), and that's for Wolf Gold 55gr FMJ. Nothing is cheaper.

WHAT THAT MEANS is that for every 1000rds you shoot, you save a MINIMUM of $150 over the absolute cheapest stuff you can buy (and $200 with some bulk buying). And the quality/precision of your reloads will be on another plane of existance compared to the sub-.40cent factory ammo you can buy.

$200 can easily get you a Lee Classic Turret Press, .223 dies, scale, tumbler, calipers, case gauge, boxes, hand-primer, bullet puller, and a few other items. $400 (the difference after 2000rds) will equip you with a "decked out" reloading setup in several calibers.

If you shoot 500rds or more per year, you're throwing money away not reloading. The equipment itself will never wear out, and the consumables never go bad... and the prices are finally down, and the consumable are back in stock. DO IT!
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Old 02-07-2014, 10:41 PM   #4134
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Reloading is great...but when considering savings you need to figure out what your time is worth. Without a progressive press it's not exactly fast, although for .223 plinking rounds you probably don't have to be as ---- about brass prep and weighing powder charges. Real savings come with loading for non .223/9mm stuff. For example, I load .338 win mag, tailored for my gun, with premium bullets for just over $1/round vs $3/round for factory. Basically the bigger/weirder/specialized the round the more you'll save.
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Old 02-08-2014, 01:10 PM   #4135
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Guys who reload hi-dollar-low-volume rounds save money as a side-benefit of pursuing greater precision in their hobby. I bet that you'd reload your .338 even if you saved no money at all regardless of the time it "cost" you.

I reload .308 for precision, checking specs on every case and double-weighing charges. It takes me a bit over a minute per round at the press... but when I'm done, I have something more accurate in my gun that I could buy in a store. The fact that I'm saving money is nice, but secondary. Besides, loading ammo is fun, not what I consider a "chore" just so I can go shoot cheaply.

Also, most guys looking to reload low-dollar-HI-volume for plinking save money in volume. I can save at least 50% on 9mm plinking ammo with orders of magnitude greater quality control. Yes, it's only about $.12-$.15/rd, so while it's impressive to say "I can save $2/rd on my .338", you're not going to head out and fire off 100rds in a sitting. However, me and a few buddies might shoot near 1000 pistol rounds in a weekend if we bring enough beer... and I just "saved" $150'ish.

Being honest, if I count setup/cleanup time, and the time it takes me to reload the primer tube twice, it it takes me well under two hours to crank out 300rds. Cycle rate is probably like 550rds/hr, but it's 15 mins to set up, check charge throw, break out boxes, pick up primers, make minor adjustments during the first few rounds, the occasional stoppage or tight pocket, and then completely clean up, plus a few minutes between 100's... drops me down to 150rds/hr net. Plus the whole time I've got some anti-Obama talk radio in the background, so I get double the quality time.

I'm quite confident I could do 1000rds of pistol in 2 evenings... that much of my precision .308 would take me a few weeks worth of evenings.

So I'll reiterate what I said a few posts back... ammo isn't going to get any cheaper, EVER. Reloading equipment is generally built to last a lifetime, and consumables never get old. If you own a gun and go shooting more than "a few times a year", you're throwing money away purchasing store ammo. All "time" considerations aside, reloading itself is an enjoyable part of the hobby... not as much fun as shooting, but it's quality "dude alone time" that I can do after the kids are asleep while the wife is watching vampire shows.
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Old 02-08-2014, 05:29 PM   #4136
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This just arrived... 1000x 9mm 124gr FMJ. $77 shipped... cheap.
Will start with 5.2gr Power Pistol at 1.150" and Wolf Primers.

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Old 02-10-2014, 06:51 PM   #4137
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If you shoot 500rds or more per year, you're throwing money away not reloading. The equipment itself will never wear out, and the consumables never go bad... and the prices are finally down, and the consumable are back in stock. DO IT!
I've always made fun of the guys who reload. I go to the range and shoot. They go to the range and crawl around on the ground picking up empty cases out of the mud. I know a guy who reloads (don't see him often) and the last time we went shooting he bragged on how much he saved on ammo. Later on when he dropped me off at the Walmart parking lot where we met up and shared a ride to the range he went inside and bought some 9mm. I couldn't help but laugh. He also gave me my only experience ever jamming a wheel gun (he did some 357mag loads and the primers weren't pushed in all the way. Anyway, I know he is a complete moron but I know SamNavy is not. I have an AR that I didn't think I was going to shoot very often this year but a friend just bought a Colt Pro CRP-18 and I know he is going to want to take it to the range quite a bit. Am I a dumb *** for buying some bulk steel Tula or do I really need to give the whole reloading thing another look?

Some links to good prices on everything would be great.

FWIW, 95% of my shooting over the passed two years has been the Mosin and my 10/22. Not much reloading was needed <G>.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:22 PM   #4138
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Am I a dumb *** for buying some bulk steel Tula or do I really need to give the whole reloading thing another look?

Some links to good prices on everything would be great.

FWIW, 95% of my shooting over the passed two years has been the Mosin and my 10/22. Not much reloading was needed <G>.
What'd you pay for those spam cans... $75? That's .17cents a round... you can probably reload for a bit over double that... not going to save you any money. And since the guns themselves aren't inherently accurate, you're not going to gain much by loading for precision. Not worth it for a "plinker bolt-action".

Reloading rimfire is not in the cards for even an advanced hobbyist.

I'm going to assume that money for you is only part of the equation... so what else is there to gain? The obvious advantage of hand-loads is to be able to tune your ammo for each gun... but most non-reloaders don't understand just how low quality control can be in factory ammo.

Now... when you're talking about hunting, your average guy with some Walmart purchased Remington Core-Lokt or Federal Deer Thugs isn't going to care or even notice when he misses my an inch or three. Ethics considerations aside, anything between the "front" and the "back" of a deer with any centerfire rifle is going to be a dead deer... how far you chase it is another thing, but a 2MOA gun shooting 2MOA ammo is still a kill shot at 200yds. For most hunters, that's WAY MORE than "good enough". I've read several places that the average whitetail taken with a rifle is around 75yds in the USA.

Now for those of us that shoot for recreation, I've got something for you to think about... why do you do it? It's certainly not just to make noise because I can accomplish almost the same thing by eating a meal of cabbage and lima beans. Most of us have some sort of ego involved, and shooting closer to the bullseye is better than farther. In order to improve your shooting, a very simple goal should be to steadily eliminate equipment variables until the only thing causing you to miss is you.

Upgrade to a match barrel. Tune/purchase a trigger. Grips that fit your hand. Sights that work with your eyes.

Ammo is well within your ability to control and and should be a major consideration when looking to "eliminate variables". On your workbench at home, you can craft ammunition to such precision that you can effectively completely eliminate it as a reason you're not hitting the center of the target with each shot... which is always our goal, is it not? And if ammo isn't the reason you're missing, and the gun is also a precision instrument, and there's no wind, and the sun is behind you, and the stars are aligned... then it's probably just that you suck. And you can work on getting better knowing that it's all on you.

Saving money is a huge benefit to reloading... but for me, it's all about becoming a better marksman. Even bulk .223 reloading with mixed headstamps on a basic progressive press is going to be far "better" ammo than cheaper brass plinkin stuff like PMC Bronze... and worlds better than Russian steel-case.

I'll start working up an equipment list for ya.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:36 PM   #4139
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I've always made fun of the guys who reload. I go to the range and shoot. They go to the range and crawl around on the ground picking up empty cases out of the mud.
Even if you don't reload, those cases can go for as much as $1 each, depending on what you're shooting. Why throw half the price of a cartridge downrange and leave the other half lying on the ground? Plus, if you're forming your own brass for a hard-to-find caliber, that's that much less work to do back at the loading bench. Additionally, most of the ranges I shoot at require you to police your brass, and it's the environmentally friendly thing to do anyway. Throw it in a bucket if you don't want it.
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do I really need to give the whole reloading thing another look?

Some links to good prices on everything would be great.

FWIW, 95% of my shooting over the passed two years has been the Mosin and my 10/22. Not much reloading was needed <G>.
7.62x54R can be reloaded, go for it. You'd probably enjoy it more than you think, once you got started and got comfortable with the procedures. Like SamNavy, I put on a good radio station, or throw something in the CD, and zone out into ReloaderLand. Working up specialty loads can be fun, or fine tuning a load to the particular gun it's used in is pretty rewarding. Nice to see the MOA of your groups drop when you know it's not because you're holding the gun any differently.

I built a 300Blackout a couple of months ago, and trying different powder and bullet combos to see what performs best, or working up that perfect subsonic load or the best varmint eliminator, can get to be an obsession. Lots of variety in that one caliber alone, and I also load for a benchrest .308 and four pistol calibers. I can get a lot more variety than I'd ever find on the shelf at the local gun shop. And scrambling around digging cases out of the mud keeps my shooting cheap.

Look online. Amazon has reloading stuff, so does Brownell's, Midway, Sinclair, Gander Mountain, even GunBroker. Look at the RCBS Rockchucker, or Hornady complete systems. Just get a good reloading manual; there's a wealth of info on setting up a reloading bench. Lyman has one of the most complete manuals, Hornady has another one; I usually load from the Hornady book, but go to the websites of the bullet manufacturers for info, too.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:35 PM   #4140
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I'm gonna steer you towards an auto-indexing progressive. My Dillon 550 is manual-indexing, meaning I have to manually cycle the each round from station to station. Auto-indexing is the way to go... each time you pull the handle, the entire mechanism cycles and ***** out a completed round. The Hornady LNL competes with the Dillon 650 as the 2 most popular models, with the Hornady about half as much and giving up nothing in performance. What you get with Dillon is an almost "no-questions-asked" lifetime warranty on everything, with real people who answer the phone and know their **** cold.

I'm going to recommend the Hornady because it's half the price, a more modern design, much less expensive for caliber conversions, and has an arguably better powder system. This is for the "basic" LockNLoad setup that does not include the auto case feeder or bullet feeder ($400) which takes the price for a full-boogie system up to over $1000... start with the basic one and you can add the fancy **** later if you want.

As with every press, there are some proprietary parts you need to buy when you add a new caliber. Various "holders" and "plates" in addition to the dies. They're all relatively cheap, you just gotta make sure you order all the parts you need when converting calibers. Stick with the Hornday dies even though they're a bit more expensive than some other brands.

A good scale cannot be emphasized enough. The Dillon Eliminator is the benchmark in production mechanical scales. That is the one, don't consider anything else. I also hate digital scales. Mechanicals are faster in the end and more accurate... and the Dillon is the best.

Tumbler... Lyman or Dillon (not Harbor Freight or one branded by a retailer).

Case prep... gotta decide how much you want your hands to hurt. Rifle reloading requires routine case prep over and above even the shiniest tumbling. You can go fully manual for under a hundred dollars including a bucket of little brushes/scrapers and a manual trimmer, or spend $400 on a full-**** case prep center. The Hornady Case Prep Center is a benchmark. If you've got a drill press, Forster makes a great unit that lets you precision trim as fast as anything out there. Forster also makes a great manual trimmer.

Other stuff you HAVE TO HAVE:
Case lube
Bullet Puller (they're all the same)
Calipers (you probably already have one)
Primer turning tray
Music

And then there's the "stuff" that makes life easier:
Funnels
Powder trickler
Hand primer
Bench trays (for keeping the assembly line straight)
Primer tray flipper
Case gauges
and a few other things...

You can order everything I've mentioned from a dozen different places... Midway is probably the biggest and they always have online coupons for $XX off of $XXX purchase. The only stuff not available from the more mainstream sites is the Dillon stuff... they control their dealer network a little closer. I recommend brianenos.com for Dillon.

Going whole hog on a Hornady LNL Press and their Case Prep Center is $800 for just those two items... everything else here is another $500 maybe for 2 calibers. This is all for top quality stuff.

Let me know if this is what you were thinking of.
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