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Old 02-11-2014, 10:03 AM   #4141
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For an AR, there is no reason not to have an attached brass catcher. I have a brass catcher and I don't yet have any reloading equipment whatsoever. I'm currently filling up "Fat 50" ammo cans with once-fired brass.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:53 AM   #4142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
Let me know if this is what you were thinking of.
You had me excited because it was only going to cost me $200 for the equipment and $0.21 for each round. Now we are up to around $15,000 for the equipment (rough estimate I did in my brain that has been tweaked for frugality).

The reloading guy I made fun of earlier has an attached brass catcher. After every round he has to turn his rifle 90 degrees to make the spent casing fall into a net. Fooger03, is yours better than that?
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:37 AM   #4143
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You totally can for $200'ish and do all right:
Lee Breech Lock Challenger Kit for $125, a $35 set of Lee dies, and whatever $20 case lube you like the smell of.

For rifles, you gotta have a case trimmer eventually, but to start, just set aside any cases that get too long... $50 for a trimmer.

You'll need to make sure the brass is clean although plenty of ways to do that by hand for free. A $30 tumbler (plus $10 for walnut media) makes it easy. I know you already have a set of calipers.

You don't need a bullet puller, but everything you mess up goes in a "rejects" can until you get one and can separate the parts to be used again.
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Old 02-11-2014, 01:54 PM   #4144
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I have no idea what I am looking at...

Reloading | Slickguns
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:37 PM   #4145
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:56 PM   #4146
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I use this guy right here:
AR Platform Brass Recovery Bag (Base model) by Tactical Brass Recovery

I can run about 3 full mags through it, then hold it over the ammo can and unzip the zipper on the bottom. 90 brass cases tumble into the ammo can. Zip it back up and shoot 3 more mags. Usually run 2 mags to keep it light.

It's never missed a case yet.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:15 PM   #4147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcelwee View Post
I have no idea what I am looking at...

Reloading | Slickguns
Slickguns and GunDeals are all "user uploaded" deals... my ***. It's just another place for a company to advertise. I rarely find anything on those sites that are actually deals, or that you wouldn't find anyways while doing standard internet purchasing homework. They are good for the "coupon codes" section when up to date.

When I'm trying to convince somebody to start reloading, I always hammer the point that whatever equipment you buy, the thought process should be to figure out how many pennies per round you're spending on it over time.

Lets say you spend $1k on equipment, that's 10,000 pennies. I think I'm on track to shoot about 2500rds of centerfire this year... that's only .04cents per shot for equipment. After a few years, the equipment essentially becomes free.

Just a few things to talk about when it comes to procedures.

1: After you pick up all your range brass, take it home and tumble it shiny. When you take that polished case and stick it in the press, the first stage of the press usually does triple duty... kicks out the old primer, re-sizes the brass, and inerts a new primer.

Problem: the primer pocket doesn't get clean. Reloading for precision means eliminating variables... a 100% shiny clean primer pocket is another step towards that goal. A lot of reloaders will deprime all their brass prior to tumbling. I DON'T do that for pistol brass, but absolutely DO for rifle.

2: When you shoot a round, the case is formed to the inside of the chamber under pressure... this is generally referred to as "fire-formed". After you put a piece of brass through a resizing die, it is no longer fire-formed. Brass is not all the same... brass varies GREATLY between manufacturers, both in uniform thickness and the exact blend of the brass metal itself. After every shot, the brass elongates slightly as molecule-by-molecule, the metal moves under enormous pressure towards the mouth of the case, causing a thickening around the neck. Resizing pushes the brass back in shape, but doesn't necessarily take care of the other problems... and eventually you need to remove material from the mouth of the case.

When the brass is too long, the mouth of the case starts to impact the front of the chamber, and pinch the mouth of the case down on the bullet. If the mouth pinches the bullet too strongly and resists releasing it when the charge goes off, you will overpressure the chamber and blow your face off. None of this is really a concern in straight-walled pistol brass, BUT YOU MUST TRIM YOUR RIFLE BRASS... generally, you should trim after the very first time a piece of brass is fired, and it may not need it until around 4-5 more shots, especially if you're not loading super-hot rounds that are pushing max chamber pressure.

3. You must figure out an assembly line. I reload in batches of 100 because that's the max amount my primer tube can hold. I count out 100 cases and 100 bullets and place them in tubs that I grab from. If for some reason I have to trash a case, I throw another one in that tub to keep the count correct. If I have to trash a primer for some reason, I keep it in the back of my head that I'll be one or two or three (or however many) at the end, and grab the extras I need from a separate primer box specifically for the purpose of making up at the end. Primers come in packs of 100, except I have one pack that is just to grab makeups out of at the end of a run. THIS WAY, I don't ever lose a live primer.

4. All completed rounds go in a CLEAR PLASTIC RELOADING BOX. When I finish a run, I should have 100 exactly identical rounds in a box that I can see through... that way if one of them is in any way different, it sticks out and I can fix it. After I do my quality assurance inspection of those 100, they can go in a bag or ammo-can.

I'll add more wisdom as I think about it.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:23 PM   #4148
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Just got off the phone with my buddy that bought the Colt Pro CRP-18. He said he is ready to do some reloads. Is there anything on that slickguns site that I need to get? I see Widener's Reloading and Shooting Supply INC (5000 M193 55gr for $465 shipped). That seems like a good deal to me. Here we go, I see $2500 getting spent on this ****...

Is there such a thing as an inexpensive multi stage press? Should I even go for that or just go with a single stage for a while?

Looking for links, prices, and help. Spread the gospel - get another shooter into the reloading hobby.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:40 PM   #4149
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From left to right:
Dillon Eliminator Scale, currently set to 5.1gr.
Dillon Calipers, nothing special, any set/type/model of caliper will do
Pistol funnel
Primer pickup tube (with pen for pushing last primer through)
Press multi-tool (for periodically checking dies that never need it)
Small tub of 100x 124gr FMJ's
Press, Dillon 550 w/Dillon 9mm carbide 3-set and Redding Fact Crimp Die
Large tub of 100x 9mm tumbled (but not deprimed) cases.
Clear plastic 100rd ammo box
100pk of Winchester Small-Pistol-Primers for grabbing to finish a run
Primer flipping plate
Bullet puller

Also 2 pics of the clear boxes so you can see how easy they are to inspect as a batch.



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Old 02-11-2014, 11:27 PM   #4150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcelwee View Post
Is there such a thing as an inexpensive multi stage press? Should I even go for that or just go with a single stage for a while?

Looking for links, prices, and help. Spread the gospel - get another shooter into the reloading hobby.
Yes, the Lee Classic Turret Press. A single case goes in the bottom, and the dies themselves rotate around the top (auto-indexing with the lever), and you complete one pistol round every 4-lever pulls (or 3 for rifle because you rarely need to crimp rifle calibers). This press is an industry standard.
Amazon.com: Lee Precision Classic Turret Press (Red): Sports & Outdoors Amazon.com: Lee Precision Classic Turret Press (Red): Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com: Lee Precision Pacesetter .223 Dies (Red): Sports & Outdoors Amazon.com: Lee Precision Pacesetter .223 Dies (Red): Sports & Outdoors


The Classic has a primer feed system that can be mounted to it, but requires that you use a riser (double-riser for rifle) for the Powder Feed System. The other option is to hand prime.

Amazon.com: Lee Precision Safety Primer Feed Large and Small: Sports & Outdoors Amazon.com: Lee Precision Safety Primer Feed Large and Small: Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com: Lee Precision Auto Disk Riser: Sports & Outdoors Amazon.com: Lee Precision Auto Disk Riser: Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com: Lee Precision Pro Auto Disk: Sports & Outdoors Amazon.com: Lee Precision Pro Auto Disk: Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com: Lee Precision Ergo Prime: Sports & Outdoors Amazon.com: Lee Precision Ergo Prime: Sports & Outdoors


Tumbler:
Amazon.com: Lyman Pro Sifter (115-Volt): Sports & Outdoors Amazon.com: Lyman Pro Sifter (115-Volt): Sports & Outdoors

Get your walnut media from a pet store that has stuff for lizards. Search for guys who use NuFinish car polish as an additive to their tumbling media... cheap way to put the gold spank on the brass.


You can lose your **** trying to figure out which case trimmer is the best... here:
Amazon.com: Lyman Accutrimmer With 9 Pilot Multi Pack: Sports & Outdoors Amazon.com: Lyman Accutrimmer With 9 Pilot Multi Pack: Sports & Outdoors


The same shellholder you use to hold the case in the press is used here... grab another .223 shellholder somewhere:
Amazon.com: Lee Precision R4 Shell Holder: Sports & Outdoors Amazon.com: Lee Precision R4 Shell Holder: Sports & Outdoors


Dillon Precision Accessories
From this page, get:
Primer Flip Tray
Eliminator Scale
Precision Dial Calipers (if you don't have one)
Lyman #49 Manual
Bullet Puller
3x Bottles of Case Lube

More:
Amazon.com: Berry's 100 Round Ammo Box (2) Pack - Clear Plastic Fits: .17 Remington / .222 / .223 / 5.56mm: Sports & Outdoors Amazon.com: Berry's 100 Round Ammo Box (2) Pack - Clear Plastic Fits: .17 Remington / .222 / .223 / 5.56mm: Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com: Lyman Case Prep Multi Tool: Sports & Outdoors Amazon.com: Lyman Case Prep Multi Tool: Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com: Lee Precision Powder Funnel: Sports & Outdoors Amazon.com: Lee Precision Powder Funnel: Sports & Outdoors


Using Amazon to link is EASY, but may or may not be the best prices. Right now, A LOT of mainstream suppliers may be out of certain stuff. I'll ask around and see who's throwing out deals right now.

Here is the Classic KIT from Midway that includes a bunch of stuff I linked from Amazon... but it includes the Lee Scale which is a piece of crap.
Amazon.com: Lee Precision Classic Turret Press Kit: Sports & Outdoors Amazon.com: Lee Precision Classic Turret Press Kit: Sports & Outdoors


Here it is $40 cheaper, but out of stock for 2 weeks from the biggest Lee distributor I know of:
https://fsreloading.com/lee-precisio...kit-90304.html
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:04 AM   #4151
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Good stuff. Thanks for giving me a **** load of stuff to look at tomorrow!


Edit: I watched a couple of videos on that turret press. I like what I see...

Last edited by rmcelwee; 02-12-2014 at 12:58 AM.
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Old 02-12-2014, 05:00 PM   #4152
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Congrats Robert and everybody else from the Palmetto State...

South Carolina now has Restaurant Carry. You can go into a Restaurant/Bar and sit and eat without consuming and not be in violation of the law. Private Property owners in South Carolina can post their property and No Gun Sign have the force of law in South Carolina. You can read their sign requirements in Section 23-31-235 You can read their law on signs here: South Carolina Legislature Mobile

Other sections of their law have changed. New/Renewal Permits will be valid for 5 years. South Carolina has Online Renewal and will add an online application for initial permit applications in the near future. Training Requirements have been tweaked. Plus other small changes. You can read the bill as passed here with the language struck and what has been added Underlined.
http://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess120_...8_20140117.htm
The law took effect as soon as the Governor signed it.

Louisiana does not allow restaurant carry. Last state to completely ban it. They actually have two laws on it. They go by the newest one that states you can’t carry in a place that serves alcohol for consumption on the premises. Their older law states you can carry in a restaurant that has an “R” license. The Firearms Unit in LA has told me more than once they go by the newest law that states No Carry in Places That Serve Alcohol. Montana does not allow Concealed Carry in places that serve alcohol but does allow Open Carry. New Mexico only allows carry in places that serve wine and beer. Carry is not allowed in places that serve hard liquor. In Arizona those with any valid permit/license from any state can carry in places that serve alcohol but if carrying under Permitless Carry in Arizona places that serve alcohol are Off Limits. All other states allow carry in places that serve alcohol. Be aware that some states require it be concealed in a restaurant that serves alcohol while Montana is the only state that makes it mandatory for open carry.
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:48 AM   #4153
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My understanding of it when I lived in NM in 2010/2011 was around when some stuff changed. Few LEO buddies said it this way. You could go to pizza hut where they serve beer or wine, but not a bar cause they serve liqueur. Chili's was okay because the primary source of income is not alcohol. It boiled down to if you would normally go there to drink it's a no. To eat is okay. However, no matter where you when you could NOT drink yourself. It use to be anywhere that sold alcohol which sucked. I couldn't go inside to pay for gas or get a MTdew. They sold beer in gas stations so it was a no go armed. Became a pain because now I had to debate leaving my weapon in the car where someone may notice me disarming and take the opportunity while I was inside, or breaking the law and going in to pay and my weapon isn't stolen by an idiot.

Also thanks Sam. Now I'm interested in reloading. Mostly cause I don't shoot as much as I'd like due to cost. If I can lower my cost I'd go more.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:25 AM   #4154
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I can't shoot as much as I'd like to due to location. Closest outdoor range is a 100 yard range 45 minutes away. The only other rifle range nearby is a 25 yard indoor range which is worthless as far as I'm concerned. Can't wait to buy some land that I can build a range on however the f*ck long I want it to be.

I'm interested in reloading, but it doesn't make sense for me to load anything other than pistol rounds just for indoor range use. My savage can put factory .223 rounds inside a nickel at 100 yards all day. Reloading for accuracy would make a hell of a lot more sense to me once I can get out beyond 300 yards.
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Old 02-13-2014, 10:05 AM   #4155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueZombie View Post
My understanding of it when I lived in NM in 2010/2011 was around when some stuff changed. Few LEO buddies said it this way. You could go to pizza hut where they serve beer or wine, but not a bar cause they serve liqueur. Chili's was okay because the primary source of income is not alcohol. It boiled down to if you would normally go there to drink it's a no. To eat is okay. However, no matter where you when you could NOT drink yourself. It use to be anywhere that sold alcohol which sucked. I couldn't go inside to pay for gas or get a MTdew. They sold beer in gas stations so it was a no go armed. Became a pain because now I had to debate leaving my weapon in the car where someone may notice me disarming and take the opportunity while I was inside, or breaking the law and going in to pay and my weapon isn't stolen by an idiot.

Also thanks Sam. Now I'm interested in reloading. Mostly cause I don't shoot as much as I'd like due to cost. If I can lower my cost I'd go more.
One of the biggest arguments the anti's make when it comes to carry is "alcohol and guns don't mix", which is always a major point of contention when it comes to writing CCW laws about prohibited places. Since the anti's don't really give a **** about anything except being "anti-gun", their whole goal is to make it as hard as possible to carry no matter what, while simultaneously making it hard for law enforcement to interpret the laws. Even though another part of the law makes it a felony to drink and carry, the anti's want to prohibit carry in alcohol selling places simply as a method of propoganda that associates gun owners as people who DESIRE to go into bars armed, get drunk, pick fights, and kill people. By carefully wording their argument and rhetoric, they will have you believe every bar in town will instantly turn into a wild-west saloon because obviously people who carry guns love to get drunk.

Good articles where somebody says "guns and alcohol don't mix" is simply a catch-all for an anti-gunner to avoid actually talking about the issue of bar carry. No anti-gun person would say, "It's already a felony to drink and carrry, and since people who qualify for CCW's aren't going to be drinking while carrying, my real concern is when some jerk in a bar who isn't carrying decides to pick a fight with a person who is carrying, and that person defends himself if he feels his life is in danger, we will start seeing a lot more drunk ******** in bars get shot."
Illinois restaurant owners faced with concealed carry decisions - The Daily Illini : Champaign-Urbana
Concealed carry: Illinois businesses may face heat, lawsuits over concealed weapons policies - Chicago Tribune

The laws in New Mexico and LA are ******* absurd because they are multiple ways to interpret them... and no doubt this was done on purpose, with back-room political concessions being made over the loud objections of whatever grass-roots pro-gun organization was involved.

The recent mind-bogglingly stupid set of prohibited places in IL recently enacted laws are an example (IL allows restaurant carry/50% law). You would think that with effective laws on the books of 49 other states, IL would have done a better job by simply picking the state that works the best and taking it from there. Law abiding citizens would rejoice, and criminals would be put on alert. But because of the absurdity of what IL came up with, the criminals LOL and the law-abiding have to jump through unbelievably complex hoops where one mistake (or one clueless anti-gun cop) will land them in jail. The Gov and Chicago liberal machine showed the depth of their *** on this one.

Change track:
Reloading is awesome. Check out this little guy:
Amazon.com: Lee Precision Breech Lock Hand Press Kit: Sports & Outdoors Amazon.com: Lee Precision Breech Lock Hand Press Kit: Sports & Outdoors
Great way to sit on the couch and do case prep... deprime, resize, and prime while you watch the game. I actually prefer a regular hand-primer just due to speed. I'm actually thinking about buying one of these... takes out 2 complete steps on my Dillon (which doesn't fit on the coffee table) that don't require any real concentration. I OBVIOUSLY WOULD NEVER watch TV and charge cases, but for just priming and resizing (especially pistol cases), this thing is a great tool. You can most certainly do rifle cases on these, and seat&crimp bullets too... I know many guys who have loaded thousands of rounds with one of these and they love it.
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Old 02-13-2014, 10:44 AM   #4156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooger03 View Post
My savage can put factory .223 rounds inside a nickel at 100 yards all day. Reloading for accuracy would make a hell of a lot more sense to me once I can get out beyond 300 yards.
What model Savage do you have? A true .5MOA (assuming 5-shot groups) production gun isn't common. A lot of guys who claim to have a .5MOA gun have a gun that will shoot a couple in the bullseye followed by a 2" flyer that they don't count). In another class by itself is a production gun that will shoot .5MOA on factory ammo. Savage however does have a reputation for making mo'betta accurate guns out of the box than Remington, Ruger, and Winchester, and seem to make far more hyper-accurate factory guns according to the interwebz. I'm not calling bullshit or anything, but just understand that a true .5MOA gun is usually something people spend many thousands of dollars for, either custom or via a gunsmith... not something you can usually get at Walmart.

Caveat... I have seen some incredible **** from some old and tired guns before though. My buddies (his Dad paid $125 in 1973) bone stock 1000+roundcount Model 70 .300WinMag will shoot a 10" group at 1000yds on rough handloads. There is no explaining it at all... line up the crosshairs and squeeze... bullets are drawn to the bullseye by the Force. We've done the same test 4 years in a row now and every year it's the most accurate gun on the ranch.

For years, I've also shot a 1970's era Sako .25-06 exclusively with Remington Core-Lokt and never missed the pump-house. It's topped with an equally old Redfield 3-9x40 and my longest shot was 340yds... I wagged my hold-over and squeezed... she ran 30yds into the scrub and dropped. Anybody who picks up that gun becomes Carlos Hathcock. I've kept all the brass from it over the years and keep thinking I need to work up some loads, but then I think it's more fun to knock down anything I want with the cheapest factory crap from Walmart there is.

The other side of the coin is that my brand new .308 R700 20" tactical shoots exactly 1" at 100yds with meticulously hand-loaded 165gr Accubonds... even my EOD sniper buddy couldn't do better. I got 2 deer with it at 250yds and 280yds that went exactly where I was aiming, which I attribute to the handloads and not the gun. I just got some 168gr Gamekings and am working them up to shoot this weekend for deer next season. I'm also going to hit the LGS for something "match" to load up and see if I can get those groups down. This gun has the POS Hogue "overmold" flimsy **** stock that I'm in the process of saving up for to replace... I'm even scouring CL for a takeoff wood hunting stock I can use in the meantime. Don't ever buy a gun with one of those Hogue stocks, they are truly terrible. Oh... and a Timney trigger will soon be added.

Last edited by samnavy; 02-13-2014 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:44 PM   #4157
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It's a savage 12FCV in .223.

26" heavy fluted free-floating barrel with their "accustock". It's also running their stock "accutrigger", which is undeniably the best trigger that I've ever squeezed on an order of magnitudes. Topped it off with a 4-12x Leupold VX3 and shooting Hornady 75g BTHP match ammo (probably maxed on the bullet weight at a 1:9 twist, Hornady recommends something like 72 or 73g), all on a short harris bipod.

Had issues forever on a Nikon buckmaster scope, bit the bullet and bought the Leupold because I knew the gun had to be better than I was getting. Once I got it dialed in on the Leupold, it just couldn't miss. My non-rifle shooting buddies can hit a baseball sized target at 100 yards with it - which is actually kinda sad, but then they have no idea what they're doing either.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:54 PM   #4158
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https://www.calgunsfoundation.org/20...onstitutional/

It feels like monkeys are flying out of my butt... CONGRATS to California. This is a big **** YOU to the anti-gun movement in the country and is one more step in getting a national right-to-carry law before SCOTUS. The ball is in the court of the San Diego County Sherriff now, and he's a world class ***** who hates the NRA, so you can expect an appeal or enbanc hearing.

But for now, CA is headed straight for SHALL ISSUE.
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:58 PM   #4159
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These are 41 Black Hills .308 casings. BHA gets their cases from Winchester, which is good stuff. I measured these cases and some of them were well over the 2.015 max SAAMI length, so I decided to trim them all and broke out my big Dillon motor. This thing is sweet... one stroke of the press and all 41 cases were between 2.008 and 2.010. Most people trim down to 2.005 because it's a pain to do it all by hand, but it took me about 3 minutes to do all these, so it's no big deal to leave them a pinch longer... I may have to trim them again after 3 or 4 shots, but everything that goes in the gun gets the calipers at least twice, so again, no biggie.

Here they are next to the trimmer. It screws into the die block and goes right into the press. The blue tube is for a vacuum cleaner... lots of tiny brass shavings, you gotta use the vacuum.

After I trimmed them, I lubed them up and put them through a full-length resizing die... then they go back in the tumbler because you have to lube them to resize. Tomorrow I'll prime them by hand, charge, and seat... will send pics.



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Old 02-16-2014, 09:02 PM   #4160
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Spent some time loading today.

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