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Old 09-22-2011, 03:50 PM   #601
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while the Russians would argue that you cannot be be too cruel to Chechens, I'm just going to go ahead and say that because these "missions" are domestic, they are not subject to any *****-*** NATO agreements (not like the Russians give a ****).
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Old 09-22-2011, 03:59 PM   #602
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I've never felt the attraction toward a krink, I don't think they're worth $1,700 but maybe you found a parts kit somewhere else...


My dad and I are building identical guns at the same time, more of a race to see who can finish first. Although given that He can actually do the paperwork for the two tax stamps (SBR, and a suppressor) He's going to win. Receiver was the last piece to the puzzle, between the parts kit, receiver, barrel, all the other little odds and ends I probably have right at a grand in the build. Add $400 in tax stamps to that and I have a $1400 Krink I could sell (should I ever decide to) for $2K plus. Either way I'll have a hell of a toy to plink around with.

On another note, the Ruger LCP is a hell of a little carry gun for anyone interested in something they can take more or less anywhere without feeling awkward with a big 1911 hanging off their hip. Won't do much past 20 yards or so but most self-defense shootings happen in the 5-10 yard range I would guess. Beats the hell out of having nothing on you at all.
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Old 09-22-2011, 05:17 PM   #603
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I have very little regard for human life...at least intruder style human life.

I want to leave as many home invaders on the ground with as few shots as possible, all with as little probability of having a shot go through brick wall, fly across the field in front of my house, and kill my ol' Marine neighbor's bulldog.

I definitely want serious stopping power.

I'm getting responsible enough about protecting my family and our home that I'm expanding gun collection to make sure all bases/situations are covered, that I've got litigation insurance, and want to make sure that when in front of Grand Jury I'm not trying to explain why I ate halfway through the second mag.
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Old 09-22-2011, 06:51 PM   #604
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buy a M1A and shoot anything that moves.

for interested parties, I'm omw to my FFL to pick up some new stuff...
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:35 PM   #605
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Holy **** I wish you'd learn to read posts and stop being a bragging, bashing bastards.

I already have a ******* 30-06 with a 22" barrel.

I need something shorter that I can move around the house with...but still a rifle/carbine platform so it comes up to shoulder and is easier to aim. I've shot rifles my whole life and suck with a pistol, regardless of how long I practice. (I use "suck" comparatively...I can ******* shoot, but sure as hell won't win any competitions).

I also want higher cap mags than I'm willing to put in a pistol, and more stopping power.

First I wanted an AR...and everyone screamed "overpenetration" like they just saw me slip my 12 inch jimmy in their girlfriend.

So I started looking at pistol caliber carbines and realized everything below AR price points is ****, and that there are ballistics tests showing the bigger, slower pistol rounds penetrating sheetrock and wood easier than .223, which tends to yaw and split up.

Then I got a tip on 5.45 which looked like a killer round to end and intruder's life (I don't want that ****** on the witness stand or bringing civil charges for his medical bills)...but then it's called inhumane.

Well what the ****?



And no, I don't want a shotgun. **** pumping, painting the walls, and low capacity. The autos that are worth a **** run what a Colt AR costs anyhow.
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:47 PM   #606
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You mentioned pistol caliber carbines, but did you see the KelTec Sub2000? It's available in 9x19 and .40 S&W, the latter of which may fit your needs. And what's so "inhumane" about 5.45? Inhumane to the rifle b/c of corrosive primers? It's hollow point just like many pistol rounds. **** the Hague Convention.
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:51 PM   #607
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Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
Holy **** I wish you'd learn to read posts and stop being a bragging, bashing bastards.

I already have a ******* 30-06 with a 22" barrel.

I need something shorter that I can move around the house with...but still a rifle/carbine platform so it comes up to shoulder and is easier to aim. I've shot rifles my whole life and suck with a pistol, regardless of how long I practice. (I use "suck" comparatively...I can ******* shoot, but sure as hell won't win any competitions).

I also want higher cap mags than I'm willing to put in a pistol, and more stopping power.

Slow down, turbo. The Socom 16 has a 16 1/4" barrel and is chambered in .308, NOT 30-06. It's maneuverable as anything else and the recoil/muzzle rise is negligible if you have hair on your chest. Granted, it may be slightly out of your price range, but it should remain an option. Some would even argue that .308/7.62x51 is superior to .30-06...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
First I wanted an AR...and everyone screamed "overpenetration" like they just saw me slip my 12 inch jimmy in their girlfriend.

So I started looking at pistol caliber carbines and realized everything below AR price points is ****, and that there are ballistics tests showing the bigger, slower pistol rounds penetrating sheetrock and wood easier than .223, which tends to yaw and split up.
This is true, most people are stupid and believe that .223 will go through a brick wall and kill the retarded kid up the street and paralyze his mom because she's giving him a sponge bath.


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Then I got a tip on 5.45 which looked like a killer round to end and intruder's life (I don't want that ****** on the witness stand or bringing civil charges for his medical bills)...but then it's called inhumane.

Well what the ****?
The **** is that an AK-platform rifle chambered in 5.56x39 is more than adequate, given your budget. However, if your budget happens to increase, I would recommend the Socom 16 -- despite the ammunition cost.


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And no, I don't want a shotgun. **** pumping, painting the walls, and low capacity. The autos that are worth a **** run what a Colt AR costs anyhow.
Thank you for the first part of that statement, shotguns are indeed poop.

Someone will likely recommend that little Keltec carbine that takes Glock mags and they may be fine, but I would not trust my life with a firearms manufacturer who uses drywall screws in their products.
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Old 09-23-2011, 12:10 AM   #608
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How come they can use 5.45 (hollow points) but we (US MIL) can't?
You should know the answer to that. Part of the Geneva Convention garbage doesn't allow hollow point ammo because its 'cruel.' We follow it while our enemy does not.

Speaking of .223 penetration.. Here is some food for thought:

Polymer tipped Hornady .223Rem into steel targets:


5.56AP vs 1/4" hot rolled steel:


No penetration on the target plates, while they're likely harder steel FMJ does the same with steel where the AP rounds will penetrate a steel plate.



And a tracer video just for grins.
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Old 09-23-2011, 12:24 AM   #609
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You should know the answer to that. Part of the Geneva Convention garbage doesn't allow hollow point ammo because its 'cruel.' We follow it while our enemy does not.
1) Hollow point ammunition was not prohibited during the Geneva Convention, it was the Hague Convention of 1899 when they prohibited the use of "...bullets that easily expand or flatten in the body." Seen here.

2) The Russians aren't our enemies, anymore.

I was wondering why they where using prohibited ammo, just cuz they feel like it or for some other reason. As Pusha cleared up, apparently in this video there operating in there own country so they can use whatever ammo they feel like. Kinda like how police agencies un the US use hollow point ammo.

Last edited by gearhead_318; 09-23-2011 at 12:42 AM.
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Old 09-23-2011, 12:57 AM   #610
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1) Hollow point ammunition was not prohibited during the Geneva Convention, it was the Hague Convention of 1899 when they prohibited the use of "...bullets that easily expand or flatten in the body." Seen here.

2) The Russians aren't our enemies, anymore.

I was wondering why they where using prohibited ammo, just cuz they feel like it or for some other reason. As Pusha cleared up, apparently in this video there operating in there own country so they can use whatever ammo they feel like. Kinda like how police agencies un the US use hollow point ammo.
I figured you were going to correct that, I simply grouped the Hague Convention into the Geneva Convention because I consider them relevant enough to safely do so.



I digress...



No, Russia isn't our enemy currently. Are you saying the only combatant who uses rifles against us would be Russians? Are you also saying the Taliban would follow the Geneva and Hague Conventions? They don't and that's my point, not that Russia would or would not.

In times of war I have mixed feelings. We didn't follow the rules of engagement during the Revolutionary War which caused us fewer casualties than England. By today's definitions Gorilla warfare of that nature is very similar to who I call cowards, ie Insurgents/Taliban/Whateverthefucktowels/Terrorists. They're not willing to follow the rules of war or any conventions for that matter, but I think the fact they don't represent any "State" or Country makes them different. In reality, are they?


Thats right, I google searched 5 dead hookers along with just dead hookers. Google Images baby..
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Old 09-23-2011, 01:11 AM   #611
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I decided I needed some high explosives:

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Old 09-23-2011, 01:16 AM   #612
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Nice...

I've been thinking about picking up a Glock22. OMB Express police supply in Lenexa has G22 trade ins for $299.... Kind of tempting..

http://www.ombexpress.com/p-6779-use...15rnd-mag.aspx
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Old 09-23-2011, 01:39 AM   #613
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The KelTec is the whole reason I'll be standing in line at the Conroe Convention Center a half hour before the show opens Saturday morning...but alas...the all-knowing pusha **** on that option too (of course without offering alternative).

The SOCOM is 38" long...no thank you. .308 and 30-06 have very similar ballistics (read: ******* loud and hard to come back on target for next shot)...but my main point was I already have a long rifle. Yes, I can get the M1A with higher cap mags than my POS Mossberg ATR 100...but **** if I need another yard stick to hunt deer with.

I've had an AK action before. Yes dependable. Great range gun...no. Looks like terrorist gun in front of Grand Jury...yes.

Ok...drywall screws (and actual logic in your arguments). Drywall screws have a MUCH lower shear than regular screws. If you provide link to your source I'll never buy a Kellgren product.



So...


What are my realistic options. I'm really not worried about either .223 or 5.45 "over" penetrating. And I know it'll be easier and cheaper to build a gun on in .223.
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:06 AM   #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
The KelTec is the whole reason I'll be standing in line at the Conroe Convention Center a half hour before the show opens Saturday morning...but alas...the all-knowing pusha **** on that option too (of course without offering alternative).

The SOCOM is 38" long...no thank you. .308 and 30-06 have very similar ballistics (read: ******* loud and hard to come back on target for next shot)...but my main point was I already have a long rifle. Yes, I can get the M1A with higher cap mags than my POS Mossberg ATR 100...but **** if I need another yard stick to hunt deer with.

I've had an AK action before. Yes dependable. Great range gun...no. Looks like terrorist gun in front of Grand Jury...yes.

Ok...drywall screws (and actual logic in your arguments). Drywall screws have a MUCH lower shear than regular screws. If you provide link to your source I'll never buy a Kellgren product.



So...


What are my realistic options. I'm really not worried about either .223 or 5.45 "over" penetrating. And I know it'll be easier and cheaper to build a gun on in .223.
I've already voiced my opinion about the Sub2000. There's several shows coming up next month and I'll be attempting to secure a 9mm Sub2k.

How about a .223 pistol?



PLR-16 accepts AR magazines and with a proper muzzle brake recoil is very easily managed. Careful on forward vertical grips, I believe that would have to be registered with the ATF as an AOW to add a vertical grip on a pistol.
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:08 AM   #615
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No, Russia isn't our enemy currently. Are you saying the only combatant who uses rifles against us would be Russians? Are you also saying the Taliban would follow the Geneva and Hague Conventions? They don't and that's my point, not that Russia would or would not.
I have become, (pause for dramatic effect) predictable...

No of course not, on both counts. I've always thought it was kind of silly to put make rules for war, it's like putting restricter plates on race cars. Of course, I wouldn't like to see the use of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons. One could argue Gorilla warfare is cowedly, but if the N. Koreans invaded the USA, I'd be doing some Gorilla warfare, and I wouldn't be giving a goddamn about what some ***** in Holland said 100 years ago. (assuming I'm not in the Mil.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
The SOCOM is 38" long...no thank you. .308 and 30-06 have very similar ballistics (read: ******* loud and hard to come back on target for next shot)...but my main point was I already have a long rifle. Yes, I can get the M1A with higher cap mags than my POS Mossberg ATR 100...but **** if I need another yard stick to hunt deer with.
I think he was kidding about the SOCOM guns, they are hella cool though. I think I may have the answer to you quandary.
DUAL WEALD PISTOLS


In all seriousness though, what about the Ruger mini-14? Short enough for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
I've already voiced my opinion about the Sub2000. There's several shows coming up next month and I'll be attempting to secure a 9mm Sub2k.

How about a .223 pistol?

PLR-16 accepts AR magazines and with a proper muzzle brake recoil is very easily managed. Careful on forward vertical grips, I believe that would have to be registered with the ATF as an AOW to add a vertical grip on a pistol.
I like a lot, but... In front of a grand jury? And w/o the foreword grip? And $? Better off with a high caliber simi-auto pistol IMHO

I googled "kel tec sub 2000 drywall screws" and came up with nothing. I want link.
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:16 AM   #616
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Did you say SOCOM?



My bad, wrong rifle.




On a side note, I really feel bad for my Mosin Nagant suddenly. Watching a movie and realized I've never once cleaned it.... When I'm done at the range I'll run a solvent soaked 30 cal boresnake through the barrel but haven't ever touched it with a patch.



I ran out of patches before finishing. :(






Mini-14 in .223 would be neat, so would Mini-30 in 7.62x39. Problem with both rifles is on the used market they're VERY expensive and getting harder to find. Always see 3 or 4 sitting on the used rack @ Cabela's with $700-1300 price tags.
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:28 AM   #617
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I think I was thinking of the FN SCAR, which incidentally would also be a great home defense weapon!

Also:
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:30 AM   #618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
The KelTec is the whole reason I'll be standing in line at the Conroe Convention Center a half hour before the show opens Saturday morning...but alas...the all-knowing pusha **** on that option too (of course without offering alternative).
I'd buy a Colt 6450, but that's just me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
The SOCOM is 38" long...no thank you. .308 and 30-06 have very similar ballistics (read: ******* loud and hard to come back on target for next shot)...but my main point was I already have a long rifle. Yes, I can get the M1A with higher cap mags than my POS Mossberg ATR 100...but **** if I need another yard stick to hunt deer with.
Just for you:

stocks collapsed



stocks extended



I'd say the difference is negligible.

Quote:
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I've had an AK action before. Yes dependable. Great range gun...no. Looks like terrorist gun in front of Grand Jury...yes.
The main reason I'll never buy a foregrip for anything I own or paint a rifle like I'm in COWADOOTY.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
Ok...drywall screws (and actual logic in your arguments). Drywall screws have a MUCH lower shear than regular screws. If you provide link to your source I'll never buy a Kellgren product.
You really are touchy about this, no? The drywall screw reference is just a joke, sort of how all Glocks are grenades and how the FAMAS is the greatest rifle ever. I would not buy a Keltec though, my friend has an RFB and he begs me to shoot my M1A NM. The one time I shot it, I liked the feel but I couldn't get used to the trigger -- it felt like every other bullpup I've ever shot: crummy.
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:34 AM   #619
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Haha, At 3:30 in that video shooting the gong you can actually see the bullet arc before the rounds strike.. Crazy..
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Old 09-23-2011, 04:03 AM   #620
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2) The Russians aren't our enemies, anymore.
When did this happen?
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