Yet Another Gun Thread
09-24-2011, 02:11 PM
#641
Just got back from the Hampton Gun Show.
Crap. I own a house here in VaBch, and my Florida DL has that address on it. Overwhelming consensus from several dealers at the show was that as long as I had a local address on my Florida drivers license, and had another form of ID or proof of residence (checkbook or what not), then I would be legal for a longgun, and that my orders were not required.
But I didn't know that until after I'd negotiated a deal for a Sub2000, Mav88, 2 korean 33rd glock mags, cheapo red-dot, tax ,etc OTD: $575. Great deal, except I didn't have another form of ID. So I made friends with a local dealer who has a shop and will be visiting him this week with a checkbook and all my paperwork, he's promised to look for a used shotgun that fits my needs in the meantime.
On another note, I saw only 4 KelTec Sub2000's in the whole show... and it's not a small show. They were all 9mm. 2 of them were marked $299 NIB with one magazine. As I was standing over the first one that I saw and was talking to the dealer, there was a guy standing behind me listening to the conversation... as soon as the dealer said "Well, I don't think I can sell you anything today", the guy behing me says "I'll take it, and 5 of the Glock mags". The show had only been open about 25mins and based on the fact that I only saw 4 total, I can assume the $299 was a great buy.
The other 2 were used, "private sale" and were $425 and $450 respectively. They both were stock with the single stock magazine... people hoping to cash in on low volume/hi demand.
The Hi-Point carbines, mostly in .45 ACP, were all over the place on price, but they were everywhere, but I've decided on the KelTec for the matching Glock mag's that will make my buying choice of a full-size polymer easy.
Overall, great learning experience, picked up and handled a lot of guns, talked to a lot of people... very refreshing experience over what I'm used to in stores.
Crap. I own a house here in VaBch, and my Florida DL has that address on it. Overwhelming consensus from several dealers at the show was that as long as I had a local address on my Florida drivers license, and had another form of ID or proof of residence (checkbook or what not), then I would be legal for a longgun, and that my orders were not required.
But I didn't know that until after I'd negotiated a deal for a Sub2000, Mav88, 2 korean 33rd glock mags, cheapo red-dot, tax ,etc OTD: $575. Great deal, except I didn't have another form of ID. So I made friends with a local dealer who has a shop and will be visiting him this week with a checkbook and all my paperwork, he's promised to look for a used shotgun that fits my needs in the meantime.
On another note, I saw only 4 KelTec Sub2000's in the whole show... and it's not a small show. They were all 9mm. 2 of them were marked $299 NIB with one magazine. As I was standing over the first one that I saw and was talking to the dealer, there was a guy standing behind me listening to the conversation... as soon as the dealer said "Well, I don't think I can sell you anything today", the guy behing me says "I'll take it, and 5 of the Glock mags". The show had only been open about 25mins and based on the fact that I only saw 4 total, I can assume the $299 was a great buy.
The other 2 were used, "private sale" and were $425 and $450 respectively. They both were stock with the single stock magazine... people hoping to cash in on low volume/hi demand.
The Hi-Point carbines, mostly in .45 ACP, were all over the place on price, but they were everywhere, but I've decided on the KelTec for the matching Glock mag's that will make my buying choice of a full-size polymer easy.
Overall, great learning experience, picked up and handled a lot of guns, talked to a lot of people... very refreshing experience over what I'm used to in stores.
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09-24-2011, 05:34 PM
#642
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$575 OTD for a Sub2k, a shotgun, couple magazines, cheap red dot, and tax is what you worked? Jesus.. I need to learn some haggling from you..
$299 is a great buy for the Sub2000, most shops around here want $349 when they have one to sell. Wish I made up my mind to buy one sooner, I've walked by dozens of them for $320 at shows but when you're looking for one they're nowhere to be found. I've fired a Sub2k in .40S&W but I've never done more than just handle a Hi-Point Carbine, however most I've talked to about them say they're pretty well built and reliable. Would I buy one to plink with? **** yes. Self defense situation? Not a chance. While my shooting buddy has a HP 9mm that has never malfunctioned a single time in 7 years, I still wouldn't trust them. Biggest advantage the Sub2k has over the HP-Carbine is magazine choice! You can get the Sub2k in 9mm configured to receive GLK17, GLK19, S&W59, BERETTA92, or SIG226 magazines. The .40S&W can accept GLK22, GLK23, BERETTA96, S&W4006, or SIG226 magazines. HI-Carbine will only take their magazines, and I think the highest capacity you can get is like 15 rounds and they're expensive!
Think I just got a perm woody..
Designed correctly if you were so inclined would make that only a single tax NFA "weapon" by pinning the suppressor body and the barrel together. Otherwise as is, that'd be a suppressed SBR, or an additional $400.00 because the US Government vilifies suppressors and short barrel rifles, then discovered they could make money off them. Here's some food for thought... In England you can't own a handgun. Guess what you can own without ANY ******* red tape? Suppressed (or 'Moderated' as English call it) longarms. In fact, if you're not using a suppressed rifle to hunt you're not considered a "Gentleman." ******* **** politicians.
What's that on the end of his barrel???
Don't know if it was the ammo, but that glock did NOT impress me. Failed to eject every fired casing.. I do however really like that rotating forward rail but I'll call the guy a retard for taking off the factory sights and depending on his little electric gizmo.
http://redlionprecision.com/23512.html is the site for the foregrip.
Prices (Prices Include Shipping):
R6 Forend with no picatinny rails $147.00
(1) 5 Slot picatinny rail with hardware $ 17.50
(1) 8 Slot picatinny rail with hardware $ 19.00
(1) 19 Slot picatinny rail with hardware $ 31.00
T15 torx wrench $ 2.00
(1) 10-24 grommet (possibly needed for those using alternative rails other than ours, our rails come with these) $ .95
Jesus.. so what you see in the picture of that guys gun cost $240.00!!! Think I'd just buy the $147 piece and locate my own rails and hardware...
An interesting article that CTD posted on facebook as I typed this:
http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=11765
My closing thoughts. You know it really pisses me off how some people think used items are worth retail and above prices. Not to mention going to gun shows to see just a bunch of ********* dealers with retail prices listed on all their items, along with being completely unwilling to work on the prices at all. Attended 2 gunshows searching specifically for a Keltec PF9 and everyone wanted $350.00 for them! I would approach a booth and ask what the cash price on a PF9 was, they'd tell me $350 or whatever and I'd reply with, "no I said CASH price.." They'd repeat $350 or whatever then tell me, "we have to keep paperwork on all our firearms sales, I'm not going to sell you a gun without charging tax..." Hey, *******, I didn't ask you to sell me a gun without tax.. I asked what your CASH price was, you know, Dead presidents that are accepted anywhere on the planet (except a cruise ship bar).. I'm trying to save this fuckface the 3-10% Visa would charge for them to accept my credit or debit card, but noooooo.........
There is a shop up the street from me "The Bullet Hole" (incidentally there was a murder/suicide there last week..) and pump out 15 pieces of paper with Former President Jackson on them and leave with a brand new PF9. These fuckface ******* dealers at shows want $350.00 for them, then bitch that a booth costs $65.00 a table like I give a **** that they're charging over MSRP for a firearm and completely not willing to talk. Finally ended up waving $275.00 cash in this guys face (literally) and he took my offer for a chocolate brown arm marked $289.99. Then while filling out my ATF4473 this kid who was running my background tells me while hes on hold that they (employees of the shop) buy guns wholesale for personal use from distributors.. Claims he paid $200 for a BNIB XD45, and the owner was bitching about cost of tables at a gunshow? Then quit packing up your store and spending money to drive from Wichita Kansas to Kansas City and renting 25 tables @ $65 a table.
Keltec's website shows the Sub2000 MSRP of $409, where do these jerkoffs get off thinkin' their $350.00 gun is worth $100 more used? I see the same bullshit with one of my other hobbies, go to a swap meet and some guy has a 10 year old radio that hes asking more for than the current model which does more out of the box than his... WTF is wrong with people, or am I just an idiot?
I feel better.
$299 is a great buy for the Sub2000, most shops around here want $349 when they have one to sell. Wish I made up my mind to buy one sooner, I've walked by dozens of them for $320 at shows but when you're looking for one they're nowhere to be found. I've fired a Sub2k in .40S&W but I've never done more than just handle a Hi-Point Carbine, however most I've talked to about them say they're pretty well built and reliable. Would I buy one to plink with? **** yes. Self defense situation? Not a chance. While my shooting buddy has a HP 9mm that has never malfunctioned a single time in 7 years, I still wouldn't trust them. Biggest advantage the Sub2k has over the HP-Carbine is magazine choice! You can get the Sub2k in 9mm configured to receive GLK17, GLK19, S&W59, BERETTA92, or SIG226 magazines. The .40S&W can accept GLK22, GLK23, BERETTA96, S&W4006, or SIG226 magazines. HI-Carbine will only take their magazines, and I think the highest capacity you can get is like 15 rounds and they're expensive!
Think I just got a perm woody..
Designed correctly if you were so inclined would make that only a single tax NFA "weapon" by pinning the suppressor body and the barrel together. Otherwise as is, that'd be a suppressed SBR, or an additional $400.00 because the US Government vilifies suppressors and short barrel rifles, then discovered they could make money off them. Here's some food for thought... In England you can't own a handgun. Guess what you can own without ANY ******* red tape? Suppressed (or 'Moderated' as English call it) longarms. In fact, if you're not using a suppressed rifle to hunt you're not considered a "Gentleman." ******* **** politicians.
What's that on the end of his barrel???
Don't know if it was the ammo, but that glock did NOT impress me. Failed to eject every fired casing.. I do however really like that rotating forward rail but I'll call the guy a retard for taking off the factory sights and depending on his little electric gizmo.
http://redlionprecision.com/23512.html is the site for the foregrip.
Prices (Prices Include Shipping):
R6 Forend with no picatinny rails $147.00
(1) 5 Slot picatinny rail with hardware $ 17.50
(1) 8 Slot picatinny rail with hardware $ 19.00
(1) 19 Slot picatinny rail with hardware $ 31.00
T15 torx wrench $ 2.00
(1) 10-24 grommet (possibly needed for those using alternative rails other than ours, our rails come with these) $ .95
Jesus.. so what you see in the picture of that guys gun cost $240.00!!! Think I'd just buy the $147 piece and locate my own rails and hardware...
An interesting article that CTD posted on facebook as I typed this:
http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=11765
My closing thoughts. You know it really pisses me off how some people think used items are worth retail and above prices. Not to mention going to gun shows to see just a bunch of ********* dealers with retail prices listed on all their items, along with being completely unwilling to work on the prices at all. Attended 2 gunshows searching specifically for a Keltec PF9 and everyone wanted $350.00 for them! I would approach a booth and ask what the cash price on a PF9 was, they'd tell me $350 or whatever and I'd reply with, "no I said CASH price.." They'd repeat $350 or whatever then tell me, "we have to keep paperwork on all our firearms sales, I'm not going to sell you a gun without charging tax..." Hey, *******, I didn't ask you to sell me a gun without tax.. I asked what your CASH price was, you know, Dead presidents that are accepted anywhere on the planet (except a cruise ship bar).. I'm trying to save this fuckface the 3-10% Visa would charge for them to accept my credit or debit card, but noooooo.........
There is a shop up the street from me "The Bullet Hole" (incidentally there was a murder/suicide there last week..) and pump out 15 pieces of paper with Former President Jackson on them and leave with a brand new PF9. These fuckface ******* dealers at shows want $350.00 for them, then bitch that a booth costs $65.00 a table like I give a **** that they're charging over MSRP for a firearm and completely not willing to talk. Finally ended up waving $275.00 cash in this guys face (literally) and he took my offer for a chocolate brown arm marked $289.99. Then while filling out my ATF4473 this kid who was running my background tells me while hes on hold that they (employees of the shop) buy guns wholesale for personal use from distributors.. Claims he paid $200 for a BNIB XD45, and the owner was bitching about cost of tables at a gunshow? Then quit packing up your store and spending money to drive from Wichita Kansas to Kansas City and renting 25 tables @ $65 a table.
Keltec's website shows the Sub2000 MSRP of $409, where do these jerkoffs get off thinkin' their $350.00 gun is worth $100 more used? I see the same bullshit with one of my other hobbies, go to a swap meet and some guy has a 10 year old radio that hes asking more for than the current model which does more out of the box than his... WTF is wrong with people, or am I just an idiot?
I feel better.
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09-24-2011, 06:00 PM
#643
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Forgot to add-
One thing I like about gun shows is they give you a free opportunity most of the time to handle firearms and converse with people who sometimes know a lot about different items, typically with a fairly good attitude. The reverse is often true of gun stores in general, unless they know you well or you're a member of their little 'club' typically they're pretty closed off to talk and pull guns from the cases.. That's been my experience anyway.
Of course the exception is the occasional "DO NOT HANDLE" sign on the M4 carbine or .50BMG rifle. Neither of which are ever for sale.
One thing I like about gun shows is they give you a free opportunity most of the time to handle firearms and converse with people who sometimes know a lot about different items, typically with a fairly good attitude. The reverse is often true of gun stores in general, unless they know you well or you're a member of their little 'club' typically they're pretty closed off to talk and pull guns from the cases.. That's been my experience anyway.
Of course the exception is the occasional "DO NOT HANDLE" sign on the M4 carbine or .50BMG rifle. Neither of which are ever for sale.
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09-24-2011, 07:33 PM
#644
KelTec $299
Mav88 (used, stock, looked perfect) $210
Magazines $13ea
Reddot $30... that's $566 total... I told him I'd give him $575 cash money otd and he could work the numbers however he wanted... deal.
I'm still clueless on the whole AR thing though... will let you know when I figure something out.
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09-24-2011, 07:40 PM
#645
long shot, but has anyone here tried this manufacturer's ammunition?
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/76870-1.html
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/76870-1.html
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09-24-2011, 09:54 PM
#646
Gun show went well for me today too:
Found the Kel Tec much cheaper than expected. All five mags are factory Glock.
Same deal as Sam saw...only 4 damn KelTec carbines in the whole damn show (big convention center). Two were Beretta mag models, and when I was about to give up and was talking to a vendor about the new XDm Springfields I told him what I was really looking for and the bastard pulled two KelTec boxes out from under the counter...both Glock 9mm models.
I simply asked if he had a Glock 19 to go with it. Got the KelTec for $310, and a pretty good discount for the combo and paying cash. Got out the door for less than the cheapest decent AR I saw in the whole place.
The G19 is a Gen4 model, and came with three mags. I ******* love it and can't wait to shoot it. The carbine needs a red dot like whoa...but I'm expecting it to be a lot of fun (and practical, useful, and deadly) as well.
Glock fills my car carry spot well, and I'm happy leaning the KelTec just inside my wardrobe for "bump in the night" duty.
At least they're "Made in America" drywall screws...
He who is Juan:
I saw cheap PF9 all ******* day long. If I hadn't planned on grabbing a Glock I woulda picked up the $249 one.
My little bro was with me looking for a cheap shotgun, specifically the Mav88 Sam picked up, and the vendors were completely ******* daydreaming ******** on that one. Academy has them for $180 or something, and we saw prices between $250-300. Ridiculous.
Found the Kel Tec much cheaper than expected. All five mags are factory Glock.
Same deal as Sam saw...only 4 damn KelTec carbines in the whole damn show (big convention center). Two were Beretta mag models, and when I was about to give up and was talking to a vendor about the new XDm Springfields I told him what I was really looking for and the bastard pulled two KelTec boxes out from under the counter...both Glock 9mm models.
I simply asked if he had a Glock 19 to go with it. Got the KelTec for $310, and a pretty good discount for the combo and paying cash. Got out the door for less than the cheapest decent AR I saw in the whole place.
The G19 is a Gen4 model, and came with three mags. I ******* love it and can't wait to shoot it. The carbine needs a red dot like whoa...but I'm expecting it to be a lot of fun (and practical, useful, and deadly) as well.
Glock fills my car carry spot well, and I'm happy leaning the KelTec just inside my wardrobe for "bump in the night" duty.
He who is Juan:
I saw cheap PF9 all ******* day long. If I hadn't planned on grabbing a Glock I woulda picked up the $249 one.
My little bro was with me looking for a cheap shotgun, specifically the Mav88 Sam picked up, and the vendors were completely ******* daydreaming ******** on that one. Academy has them for $180 or something, and we saw prices between $250-300. Ridiculous.
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09-25-2011, 08:32 PM
#652
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Gun show went well for me today too:
Found the Kel Tec much cheaper than expected. All five mags are factory Glock.
Same deal as Sam saw...only 4 damn KelTec carbines in the whole damn show (big convention center). Two were Beretta mag models, and when I was about to give up and was talking to a vendor about the new XDm Springfields I told him what I was really looking for and the bastard pulled two KelTec boxes out from under the counter...both Glock 9mm models.
I simply asked if he had a Glock 19 to go with it. Got the KelTec for $310, and a pretty good discount for the combo and paying cash. Got out the door for less than the cheapest decent AR I saw in the whole place.
The G19 is a Gen4 model, and came with three mags. I ******* love it and can't wait to shoot it. The carbine needs a red dot like whoa...but I'm expecting it to be a lot of fun (and practical, useful, and deadly) as well.
Glock fills my car carry spot well, and I'm happy leaning the KelTec just inside my wardrobe for "bump in the night" duty.
At least they're "Made in America" drywall screws...
He who is Juan:
I saw cheap PF9 all ******* day long. If I hadn't planned on grabbing a Glock I woulda picked up the $249 one.
My little bro was with me looking for a cheap shotgun, specifically the Mav88 Sam picked up, and the vendors were completely ******* daydreaming ******** on that one. Academy has them for $180 or something, and we saw prices between $250-300. Ridiculous.
Found the Kel Tec much cheaper than expected. All five mags are factory Glock.
Same deal as Sam saw...only 4 damn KelTec carbines in the whole damn show (big convention center). Two were Beretta mag models, and when I was about to give up and was talking to a vendor about the new XDm Springfields I told him what I was really looking for and the bastard pulled two KelTec boxes out from under the counter...both Glock 9mm models.
I simply asked if he had a Glock 19 to go with it. Got the KelTec for $310, and a pretty good discount for the combo and paying cash. Got out the door for less than the cheapest decent AR I saw in the whole place.
The G19 is a Gen4 model, and came with three mags. I ******* love it and can't wait to shoot it. The carbine needs a red dot like whoa...but I'm expecting it to be a lot of fun (and practical, useful, and deadly) as well.
Glock fills my car carry spot well, and I'm happy leaning the KelTec just inside my wardrobe for "bump in the night" duty.
At least they're "Made in America" drywall screws...
He who is Juan:
I saw cheap PF9 all ******* day long. If I hadn't planned on grabbing a Glock I woulda picked up the $249 one.
My little bro was with me looking for a cheap shotgun, specifically the Mav88 Sam picked up, and the vendors were completely ******* daydreaming ******** on that one. Academy has them for $180 or something, and we saw prices between $250-300. Ridiculous.
I'm ******* jealous! What'd you give for that G19?
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... ****. I Just found on a local police supply company they're selling (though currently backordered) Sub2000 9mms for $271.99.... That should put it $295 out the door.. Have to stop by there tomorrow and see if I could order one. There is a gun show this coming weekend but I'm probably going to Lake of the Ozarks Friday and won't be back until Sunday night so thats out..
http://www.ombexpress.com/p-5115-sub...-9mm-mags.aspx
Couple weeks ago I bought another .223 rilfe, New England Firearms handi-rifle that came with a not that great leapers scope. Have been wanting to order a "tactical" scope for my AR since I built the rifle just never got around to it. Finally did the other day and have since been having second thoughts on what I bought... Visiting gun shows I'm always looking for scopes and typically don't find anything worth even picking up. Stopped by some company's booth out of Georgia six months ago who sells Osprey International branded optics and accessories, curious I found a 10-40x50 'tactical' scope and started playing with it. Zoomed it in far as it'd go, played with the side adjusted parallax, messed with the adjustment turrets and gave it just a good look over. Weight felt pretty good, overall fit and finish seemed great. Asked the guy about them and was told they're made with Japanese glass and other blah blah blah but built in china.. Asking $250 for what I had in my hands. Seemed reasonable, but figured I'd do some research and look further.
Of course google searches for this scope resulted in about 50/50 its great/it sucks don't buy it. Most of the people posting about how it sucked havent owned one and seem to think unless you're going to spend $1000 on a scope you shouldn't bother. Figured **** it, I'll order one. Found one on Sportsmanguide.com for $139 during a sale and placed my order. Showed up Friday afternoon and I quickly started swapping scopes around. Removed the Simmons from my AR and installed it on my H&R .223, took the scope from the H&R and picked up some 1" dovetail rings and replaced the 1970s Tasco "tv tube" scope on my Glenfield 60.
The Simmons on my AR was way too low, but fits the H&R Perfectly. Bore sighted it at 300 yards on the stop sign 2 blocks down the street and looking forward to finishing the zero at the range. The Osprey 10-40 came with its own rings which seem really well machined and pretty heavy duty. Mounted it up and started looking a block away out the window checking out the parallax and eyepiece focus which I can't seem to get anything in the picture focused in. Gave up after about 30 minutes of messing with it, so I threw the leapers scope on my Glenfield and zero'd it on a sign up the street. Having a 14x 40mm scope on a 1070s Marlin .22 is way overkill, but I'm actually looking forward to testing that one at the range more than anything else..
Point of the long *** story... Got home around 2:30 this morning and decided to mess with that osprey scope more. Threw the laser in the rifle and went back outside to check out the sign 300 yards away. Much to my surprise, anything over about 75 yards was in perfect focus at almost any magnification. The "tunnel" of light at 40x is very very small and honestly not very practical for firing so I'll probably never go above 35..
F.O.V. @ 100 yds. is 9.8' at 10X, 2.7' at 40X; Lock-down finger-adjustable target turrets; Illuminated glass-etched reticle with 11 brightness settings; 30 mm tube; 3-3 1/2" eye relief; 15 1/2"l., weighs 23 3/4 ozs.; Includes 30 mm tactical mount rings and flip-up see-through lens covers.
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09-26-2011, 05:46 PM
#654
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Found another Gem @ OMB Express today. They're selling G22 service trades for $299 and most are in pretty good condition just filthy dirty. Why clean it when its not yours, right? Since I don't have anything in .40S&W and plan to pickup a SUB2k in 9mm that doesn't make sense to buy, until I found the Lone Wolf 40-9 Conversion barrel. Simply install it in your Glock22 and insert G17 9mm magazines....Profit!
Plus I'll be able to easily swap it back and run .40S&W if so desired, and the barrel is only $99.00... Best deal I can find local on G22s is $539.
Stopped by their store to finger one. All G22 trades have Trijicon front and rear sights and heavy wear on the slides. Most are pretty dirty but look as if they'd clean up. They were getting ready to close but looks like I'll be returning tomorrow to come home with one..
Plus I'll be able to easily swap it back and run .40S&W if so desired, and the barrel is only $99.00... Best deal I can find local on G22s is $539.
Stopped by their store to finger one. All G22 trades have Trijicon front and rear sights and heavy wear on the slides. Most are pretty dirty but look as if they'd clean up. They were getting ready to close but looks like I'll be returning tomorrow to come home with one..
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09-26-2011, 07:34 PM
#656
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I considered the extractor might be an issue since the angle is different between the 9 and 40 but did the research. From what I've found using the 9mm upper on the G22 lower would require those parts, but the conversion barrel somehow seems to rectify that issue. Seems its also suggested that you use the 9mm recoil spring since its a little softer, the major issue appears to be stovepipes from weak target ammo.
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09-27-2011, 01:32 AM
#660
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Cabela's has ALL Herter's .223 ammo on sale for $3.79 / box of 20.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Herte...uts?WTz_l=Home
55 grain FMJ
62 grain FMJ
55 grain JHP
62 grain JHP
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Herte...uts?WTz_l=Home
55 grain FMJ
62 grain FMJ
55 grain JHP
62 grain JHP
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