Street Tuning on a Narrowband and a sanity check
#1
Street Tuning on a Narrowband and a sanity check
Am I right in thinking that street tuning on a narrowband is a bad idea? Will a known good stock 1.6L motor VE table be adequate for driving without a wideband? The way I'm understanding it is the MS reads MAP and RPM, checks the VE table to see how much air the engine is pumping (won't be over 100 for a naturally aspirated motor) and then calculates how much fuel is needed to reach the target AFR. Without a wideband, however, I won't be able to see how accurate the VE tables are. So really, how safe is it to get a 1.6L Naturally Aspirated VE table and plug it into my MSQ and assume it's right? If I have to pay $90/hr for dyno time I might as well just spend $100 extra for the wideband.
As far as the sanity check goes I am going to get a wideband soon when I do some serious tuning. Since I'm using the megasquirt I don't need the narrowband, right? I can just remove it, thread in the wideband (the threads should be the same OEM vs LC-1, right?) hook up the gauge and connect it to the MS? I don't see why not. Will I need to get the wideband controller in addition to the gauge?
These are probably basic questions, but I've done some searching and couldn't find adequate answers. I'm about to start building my DIYPNP so I can learn how to tune the miata before I slap a turbo on.
P.S. anyone have a good base map for a naturally aspirated, stock 1.6L? The diyautotune map is for a 1.6L with a BEGi S3 turbo kit. I don't think the VE would be the same up to 100% MAP kPa.
As far as the sanity check goes I am going to get a wideband soon when I do some serious tuning. Since I'm using the megasquirt I don't need the narrowband, right? I can just remove it, thread in the wideband (the threads should be the same OEM vs LC-1, right?) hook up the gauge and connect it to the MS? I don't see why not. Will I need to get the wideband controller in addition to the gauge?
These are probably basic questions, but I've done some searching and couldn't find adequate answers. I'm about to start building my DIYPNP so I can learn how to tune the miata before I slap a turbo on.
P.S. anyone have a good base map for a naturally aspirated, stock 1.6L? The diyautotune map is for a 1.6L with a BEGi S3 turbo kit. I don't think the VE would be the same up to 100% MAP kPa.
#2
I tried autotuning on narrowband and it sucked. So I don't recommend it.
You won't need a narrowband once you get a wideband, unless you're running piggyback or something stupid like that.
The diyautotune maps are fine. They are scaled to 250kpa I believe. Your naturally aspirated engine will only use the bottom 40% of the map up to 100kpa.
LC-1 *IS* the controller.
You won't need a narrowband once you get a wideband, unless you're running piggyback or something stupid like that.
The diyautotune maps are fine. They are scaled to 250kpa I believe. Your naturally aspirated engine will only use the bottom 40% of the map up to 100kpa.
LC-1 *IS* the controller.
#3
I tried autotuning on narrowband and it sucked. So I don't recommend it.
You won't need a narrowband once you get a wideband, unless you're running piggyback or something stupid like that.
The diyautotune maps are fine. They are scaled to 250kpa I believe. Your naturally aspirated engine will only use the bottom 40% of the map up to 100kpa.
LC-1 *IS* the controller.
You won't need a narrowband once you get a wideband, unless you're running piggyback or something stupid like that.
The diyautotune maps are fine. They are scaled to 250kpa I believe. Your naturally aspirated engine will only use the bottom 40% of the map up to 100kpa.
LC-1 *IS* the controller.
So I can hook this kit up to both the provided gauge *and* MS?
#5
Open/unhook the waste gate and tune up to 80kpa on the narrow band. When you're ready to have fun in boost order a wideband confirm your readings for what you've tuned and then start tuning up to wot. Then connect the waste gate and start tunning in boost. A LC1 on the narrow band location is a no no, you want it right in front of the cat by the tranny. Don't be a -----... get a wideband and tune right from the start. Oh and a wideband is ~200 bucks+shipping.
Last edited by triple88a; 04-04-2012 at 05:27 PM.
#6
Open/unhook the waste gate and tune up to 80kpa on the narrow band. When you're ready to have fun in boost order a wideband confirm your readings for what you've tuned and then start tuning up to wot. Then connect the waste gate and start tunning in boost. A LC1 on the narrow band location is a no no, you want it right in front of the cat by the tranny. Don't be a -----... get a wideband and tune right from the start. Oh and a wideband is ~200 bucks+shipping.
Could you explain why the narrowband location is bad for the wideband?
#7
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Too hot.
Easiest thing to do is leave your narrowband in place, don't mess with it. Drop the midpipe and have a bung welded on for the LC-1 as suggested, right before the flange for the cat. Put it on top, and it's a straight shot for the cable up into the cabin underneath the shifter boot. You can stuff the LC-1 itself into the radio compartment area, there should be plenty of room.
Easiest thing to do is leave your narrowband in place, don't mess with it. Drop the midpipe and have a bung welded on for the LC-1 as suggested, right before the flange for the cat. Put it on top, and it's a straight shot for the cable up into the cabin underneath the shifter boot. You can stuff the LC-1 itself into the radio compartment area, there should be plenty of room.
#10
That's not correct. You can tune with a narrowband without "guessing". Your NB can tell you when you're at 14.7. From there, it's simple math to adjust your VE table to your target AFR. Just divide the actual AFR (14.7) by the target AFR (say, 13.0), and multiply by your VE. I use this on the dyno and it's very effective. TunerStudio or MLV will do this automatically.
#13
And dynos will have a wideband to shove up the exhaust pipe. I wouldn't be guessing the AFRs.
That's not correct. You can tune with a narrowband without "guessing". Your NB can tell you when you're at 14.7. From there, it's simple math to adjust your VE table to your target AFR. Just divide the actual AFR (14.7) by the target AFR (say, 13.0), and multiply by your VE. I use this on the dyno and it's very effective. TunerStudio or MLV will do this automatically.
#15
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Bah this narrowband tuning is no substitute for buying a wideband BUT
the maths could come in very useful when tuning stock cars that have band aids etc or limping home blah blah
one problem though is that volumetric efficency does not scale linearly with boost.
the maths could come in very useful when tuning stock cars that have band aids etc or limping home blah blah
one problem though is that volumetric efficency does not scale linearly with boost.
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