Adventures in PTE/TTE
#481
The RX-7 has served Ben well but there is a reason we chose Road Atlanta and Laguna to run the champs....Laguna was even borderline on managing the tires. Car had to weigh 2901lbs or more this past weekend....on 205s...
We would have been mid-pack at sonoma last year...at best.
I think the type of racing is even more dependent. We had a good setup for qualifying and the car will turn a quick qual lap with ben at the wheel. But, a properly built/driven TTE miata should never lose to a 2800-2900lb rx7 on 205s, at almost ANY track...(reason no. 8 we don't run TT).
You guys should all also realize that Ben is a huge talent. I know i would never win a regional race, much less a championship, in my own car and others have driven it to mid pack finishes regionally. It's more him than the car.
#482
Bench racers start your engines...
Which setup do you think is better for TTE? Which is better for PTE?
I already have my own ideas but it's interesting to see what others think.
'94 Miata max 128WHP and 2355lbs Min Weight Base E (18.40lbs/HP)
+10 Hoosier R7
-1 Tire Size 225mm
+3 Limited Slip
+5 Coilovers (Shocks/Springs)
+2 Sway Bars
Total is +19
OR
'94 Miata max 136WHP and 2355lbs Min Weight Base E* (17.32lbs/HP)
+7 One Star Base Class
+9 Hoosier SM7
-7 Tire Size 205mm
+3 Limited Slip
+5 Coilovers (Shocks/Springs)
+2 Sway Bars
Total is +19
Which setup do you think is better for TTE? Which is better for PTE?
I already have my own ideas but it's interesting to see what others think.
'94 Miata max 128WHP and 2355lbs Min Weight Base E (18.40lbs/HP)
+10 Hoosier R7
-1 Tire Size 225mm
+3 Limited Slip
+5 Coilovers (Shocks/Springs)
+2 Sway Bars
Total is +19
OR
'94 Miata max 136WHP and 2355lbs Min Weight Base E* (17.32lbs/HP)
+7 One Star Base Class
+9 Hoosier SM7
-7 Tire Size 205mm
+3 Limited Slip
+5 Coilovers (Shocks/Springs)
+2 Sway Bars
Total is +19
#483
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PTE* will race better. On a very tight, twisty track with lots of time spent at max G, the R7 setup might be a hair faster.
If you delete the sways from your PTE* setup and run R7s instead, that setup will be faster everywhere.
If you delete the sways from your PTE* setup and run R7s instead, that setup will be faster everywhere.
#484
Bench racing...
My buddy just picked up a 99 Boxster. Bone stock with sport suspension. Base classes to TTE*, 2822 lbs. It makes 201 flywheel, so if it dynos at 170whp, it's just over the TTE limit.
Seems like it could potentially do pretty well. I don't think he has any plans at all of taking it nationally, but I'm curious to everyone's thoughts on how it will do and what its major faults would be, and how much the local TTE miata crowd should worry. I've never driven that vintage Boxster, so no idea on its strengths
My buddy just picked up a 99 Boxster. Bone stock with sport suspension. Base classes to TTE*, 2822 lbs. It makes 201 flywheel, so if it dynos at 170whp, it's just over the TTE limit.
Seems like it could potentially do pretty well. I don't think he has any plans at all of taking it nationally, but I'm curious to everyone's thoughts on how it will do and what its major faults would be, and how much the local TTE miata crowd should worry. I've never driven that vintage Boxster, so no idea on its strengths
#486
No need to detune. Sorry, by just over, I meant he'd be at or around 16.6lbs/hp, which is just over the 16.5 allowance, so legal.
I agree, tires would be an issue. I was thinking in 15" sizes, but I guess the skinniest is a 225 anyway, not giving him much room in points. I wonder how the car would do with a set of hoosierstones.
I agree, tires would be an issue. I was thinking in 15" sizes, but I guess the skinniest is a 225 anyway, not giving him much room in points. I wonder how the car would do with a set of hoosierstones.
#488
Looks like a couple seconds off that wannabe's record...
Justin Ross 1:45.449
Car: 1990 miata points car
Engine: stock
Intake: custom
Header: stock
Downpipe: custom
Mid-pipe: racing beat
Ecu: stock
Power: 119hp, 113ft/lbs
Shocks: koni 30 series
Springs: 700lbs and 375lbs
Swaybars: 27mm eibach and msm
Wheels: 15x9 +35 indotech
Tires: 205 RR
Weight: 2163
Justin Ross 1:45.449
Car: 1990 miata points car
Engine: stock
Intake: custom
Header: stock
Downpipe: custom
Mid-pipe: racing beat
Ecu: stock
Power: 119hp, 113ft/lbs
Shocks: koni 30 series
Springs: 700lbs and 375lbs
Swaybars: 27mm eibach and msm
Wheels: 15x9 +35 indotech
Tires: 205 RR
Weight: 2163
That said, Im kind of curious as to why a 1.6L points car couldnt be a winner when built to the limits of the rules. Has anyone tried?
Pimp Shocks
Springs
Diff (OSG) with 4.78 Kia set
Megasquirt
Intake
Pimp Exhaust
195 TD's
0pts motor build, 0.030 head shave, 0.020 over 9.4 pistons, forged rods for being able to spin it
AFPR and E85
Min weight at 2182
Points on the table for swaybars or air dam?
I found that old dyno from a stock 1.6L that Emilio did a while back. I dont see why you couldnt squeeze another 7-10whp out of it with the aforementioned 0pts build and some hardcore development and tuning, but youre hurting on torque everywhere. It would have to be driven 100% on the ragged edge too...
#492
Up front disclaimer: Savington is right about heavier cars being faster.
That said, Im kind of curious as to why a 1.6L points car couldnt be a winner when built to the limits of the rules. Has anyone tried?
Pimp Shocks
Springs
Diff (OSG) with 4.78 Kia set
Megasquirt
Intake
Pimp Exhaust
195 TD's
0pts motor build, 0.030 head shave, 0.020 over 9.4 pistons, forged rods for being able to spin it
AFPR and E85
Min weight at 2182
Points on the table for swaybars or air dam?
That said, Im kind of curious as to why a 1.6L points car couldnt be a winner when built to the limits of the rules. Has anyone tried?
Pimp Shocks
Springs
Diff (OSG) with 4.78 Kia set
Megasquirt
Intake
Pimp Exhaust
195 TD's
0pts motor build, 0.030 head shave, 0.020 over 9.4 pistons, forged rods for being able to spin it
AFPR and E85
Min weight at 2182
Points on the table for swaybars or air dam?
25 points total to use. 5pt coilovers, 3pt LSD, 9pt SM7, -4pt 205 tire size, 3pt ECU, 2pt Fuel sys, 1pt intake, 3pt header back exhaust.
Still 3pts remaining. If you're already making your hp target, then do an airdam. If not yet at hp number, then do the header at 2pts. Use the remaining point for custom intake manifold if more hp is still needed, or upgrade to R7.
Don't listen to the naysayers talking about having to run at 2600 lbs to be fast. lol.
#493
At 2182, thats 132whp. It would be tough, but doable. The downside is, I think it would only win at tracks where handling trumps power, i.e. not VIR, Road Atlanta or Watkins Glen.
I dont think it could be done on a stock header though. You would need a Stahl or the equivalent to really make it work.
#494
I think it could be done, you should do it! You only need to be able to make 130 whp to be at the class power to weight limit for PTE. 1.6 spec miatas make low 120's on gasoline all the time, and over that you'd get ECU tuning and ability to remove the restrictive airmeter, plus E85. No SM cyl head machining, but whatever. Though I'd ditch the 195 TD for 205 Hoosiers. Due to the different base class, after considering tire size points for running 205s, you still have 3 points more to work with than a points based 1.8 car.
25 points total to use. 5pt coilovers, 3pt LSD, 9pt SM7, -4pt 205 tire size, 3pt ECU, 2pt Fuel sys, 1pt intake, 3pt header back exhaust.
Still 3pts remaining. If you're already making your hp target, then do an airdam. If not yet at hp number, then do the header at 2pts. Use the remaining point for custom intake manifold if more hp is still needed, or upgrade to R7.
Don't listen to the naysayers talking about having to run at 2600 lbs to be fast. lol.
25 points total to use. 5pt coilovers, 3pt LSD, 9pt SM7, -4pt 205 tire size, 3pt ECU, 2pt Fuel sys, 1pt intake, 3pt header back exhaust.
Still 3pts remaining. If you're already making your hp target, then do an airdam. If not yet at hp number, then do the header at 2pts. Use the remaining point for custom intake manifold if more hp is still needed, or upgrade to R7.
Don't listen to the naysayers talking about having to run at 2600 lbs to be fast. lol.
#498
Since Ive been bored at work and my mind has been turning about this (which is a dangerous combination), I ran the numbers.
1.6L Miata, PTF** base class at 215 tire size and 2182 min weight and 130whp to be just barely PTE legal.
Points wise, theres 39 points to work with, 14 of which are spoken for off the bat. So, realistically 25 points total.
3 points for the TD's after width adjustment
3 points for Megasquirt
1 point for intake. Use said point for hood vents and "free" lift reduction
2 for FPR (which Im really questioning if thats needed)
5 for full exhaust
3 for LSD
3 for shocks
2 for springs
Thats 22 points total.
With 3 points left over, you could do:
2 for swaybars
3 for airdam
Or... Or... Or...
There are a couple of interesting alternatives that you could use with the "leftover" points after you knock out the necessary stuff. You would have to spend your points well (DA shocks with no reservoir, pimpy exhaust, OSG diff) and do a 0.020 over 0 points motor build with a 0.030 shaved head to hit the power goal.
The other interesting dynamic is getting a car and driver to weigh 1932lbs and then adding back the 250lb maximum ballast. For someone of my weight, that means a "minimum weight" car would have to weigh about 1732lb in race trim, minus ballast.
1.6L Miata, PTF** base class at 215 tire size and 2182 min weight and 130whp to be just barely PTE legal.
Points wise, theres 39 points to work with, 14 of which are spoken for off the bat. So, realistically 25 points total.
3 points for the TD's after width adjustment
3 points for Megasquirt
1 point for intake. Use said point for hood vents and "free" lift reduction
2 for FPR (which Im really questioning if thats needed)
5 for full exhaust
3 for LSD
3 for shocks
2 for springs
Thats 22 points total.
With 3 points left over, you could do:
2 for swaybars
3 for airdam
Or... Or... Or...
There are a couple of interesting alternatives that you could use with the "leftover" points after you knock out the necessary stuff. You would have to spend your points well (DA shocks with no reservoir, pimpy exhaust, OSG diff) and do a 0.020 over 0 points motor build with a 0.030 shaved head to hit the power goal.
The other interesting dynamic is getting a car and driver to weigh 1932lbs and then adding back the 250lb maximum ballast. For someone of my weight, that means a "minimum weight" car would have to weigh about 1732lb in race trim, minus ballast.
#499
Where do you expect the car to be faster? Mid-corner? You're going to be down on power everywhere compared to the classic NB1 build and have less tire as well. I'm sure your weight will help 195 TDs stay in the game for an entire race, but will they really give you better mid-corner speed & braking than a ~2400lb 205 R7 car?
#500
As far as faster, would it be bad if I said Mid Ohio or CMP and thats about it?
Tire wise, I dont know. I was using the TDs because theyre a 195 width unicorn. I think youve got the points for a 205 SM7 if youre creative.
So I guess better stated is would the 2182lb SM7 shod car be faster under braking/mid corner than the 2400lb R7 shod NB? I havent seen any hard data on SM7 vs R7, so I honestly dont know the answer to that question.
Tire wise, I dont know. I was using the TDs because theyre a 195 width unicorn. I think youve got the points for a 205 SM7 if youre creative.
So I guess better stated is would the 2182lb SM7 shod car be faster under braking/mid corner than the 2400lb R7 shod NB? I havent seen any hard data on SM7 vs R7, so I honestly dont know the answer to that question.