Bingo.

The RX-7 has served Ben well but there is a reason we chose Road Atlanta and Laguna to run the champs....Laguna was even borderline on managing the tires. Car had to weigh 2901lbs or more this past weekend....on 205s...

We would have been mid-pack at sonoma last year...at best.

I think the type of racing is even more dependent. We had a good setup for qualifying and the car will turn a quick qual lap with ben at the wheel. But, a properly built/driven TTE miata should never lose to a 2800-2900lb rx7 on 205s, at almost ANY track...(reason no. 8 we don't run TT).

You guys should all also realize that Ben is a huge talent. I know i would never win a regional race, much less a championship, in my own car and others have driven it to mid pack finishes regionally. It's more him than the car.

 

Bench racers start your engines...

Which setup do you think is better for TTE? Which is better for PTE?
I already have my own ideas but it's interesting to see what others think.


'94 Miata max 128WHP and 2355lbs Min Weight Base E (18.40lbs/HP)
+10 Hoosier R7
-1 Tire Size 225mm
+3 Limited Slip
+5 Coilovers (Shocks/Springs)
+2 Sway Bars
Total is +19

OR

'94 Miata max 136WHP and 2355lbs Min Weight Base E* (17.32lbs/HP)
+7 One Star Base Class
+9 Hoosier SM7
-7 Tire Size 205mm
+3 Limited Slip
+5 Coilovers (Shocks/Springs)
+2 Sway Bars
Total is +19

 

PTE* will race better. On a very tight, twisty track with lots of time spent at max G, the R7 setup might be a hair faster.

If you delete the sways from your PTE* setup and run R7s instead, that setup will be faster everywhere.

 

Bench racing...

My buddy just picked up a 99 Boxster. Bone stock with sport suspension. Base classes to TTE*, 2822 lbs. It makes 201 flywheel, so if it dynos at 170whp, it's just over the TTE limit.

Seems like it could potentially do pretty well. I don't think he has any plans at all of taking it nationally, but I'm curious to everyone's thoughts on how it will do and what its major faults would be, and how much the local TTE miata crowd should worry. I've never driven that vintage Boxster, so no idea on its strengths

 

Even if he manages to detune it, I don't think you can get enough tire under the car to stay competitive for being 2800lbs and still have enough headroom to take points for shocks/springs.

 

No need to detune. Sorry, by just over, I meant he'd be at or around 16.6lbs/hp, which is just over the 16.5 allowance, so legal.

I agree, tires would be an issue. I was thinking in 15" sizes, but I guess the skinniest is a 225 anyway, not giving him much room in points. I wonder how the car would do with a set of hoosierstones.

 

Making tires last will be the hardest part.

Also, for points classing, 2822 is just the minimum weight. He can add ballast to the car to get the p:w ratio under the class limit without needing to do any detuning.

 

Up front disclaimer: Savington is right about heavier cars being faster.

That said, Im kind of curious as to why a 1.6L points car couldnt be a winner when built to the limits of the rules. Has anyone tried?

Pimp Shocks
Springs
Diff (OSG) with 4.78 Kia set
Megasquirt
Intake
Pimp Exhaust
195 TD's
0pts motor build, 0.030 head shave, 0.020 over 9.4 pistons, forged rods for being able to spin it
AFPR and E85
Min weight at 2182
Points on the table for swaybars or air dam?





I found that old dyno from a stock 1.6L that Emilio did a while back. I dont see why you couldnt squeeze another 7-10whp out of it with the aforementioned 0pts build and some hardcore development and tuning, but youre hurting on torque everywhere. It would have to be driven 100% on the ragged edge too...

 

You said it right up top. Heavier cars are better, the 1.6L can't make enough power to be heavy enough.

 

What happened to all the posts from 8/25 to today?

 

There weren't any.

 

I think it could be done, you should do it! You only need to be able to make 130 whp to be at the class power to weight limit for PTE. 1.6 spec miatas make low 120's on gasoline all the time, and over that you'd get ECU tuning and ability to remove the restrictive airmeter, plus E85. No SM cyl head machining, but whatever. Though I'd ditch the 195 TD for 205 Hoosiers. Due to the different base class, after considering tire size points for running 205s, you still have 3 points more to work with than a points based 1.8 car.

25 points total to use. 5pt coilovers, 3pt LSD, 9pt SM7, -4pt 205 tire size, 3pt ECU, 2pt Fuel sys, 1pt intake, 3pt header back exhaust.

Still 3pts remaining. If you're already making your hp target, then do an airdam. If not yet at hp number, then do the header at 2pts. Use the remaining point for custom intake manifold if more hp is still needed, or upgrade to R7.

Don't listen to the naysayers talking about having to run at 2600 lbs to be fast. lol.

 

It doesnt have to be heavy enough.

At 2182, thats 132whp. It would be tough, but doable. The downside is, I think it would only win at tracks where handling trumps power, i.e. not VIR, Road Atlanta or Watkins Glen.

I dont think it could be done on a stock header though. You would need a Stahl or the equivalent to really make it work.

 

The base tire size for PTF is 215, so you only get -1 for a 205 not -4. You can do the same build on a NA 1.8 for the same points but the weight would be 2330.

 

Ah yes, thanks - I forgot that they skipped the 225 base tire size for PTF and went straight to 215.

No biggie, you'd just have to use the stock header and run SM7 not R7.

 

Hence the 195 TD's. Theyre R7 fast, but the 195 size buys you some points. And at 2182, shouldnt be hard to keep them under you.

 

Makes sense! Sounds like you should build a motor this winter then

 

Since Ive been bored at work and my mind has been turning about this (which is a dangerous combination), I ran the numbers.

1.6L Miata, PTF** base class at 215 tire size and 2182 min weight and 130whp to be just barely PTE legal.

Points wise, theres 39 points to work with, 14 of which are spoken for off the bat. So, realistically 25 points total.

3 points for the TD's after width adjustment
3 points for Megasquirt
1 point for intake. Use said point for hood vents and "free" lift reduction
2 for FPR (which Im really questioning if thats needed)
5 for full exhaust
3 for LSD
3 for shocks
2 for springs

Thats 22 points total.

With 3 points left over, you could do:
2 for swaybars
3 for airdam


Or... Or... Or...

There are a couple of interesting alternatives that you could use with the "leftover" points after you knock out the necessary stuff. You would have to spend your points well (DA shocks with no reservoir, pimpy exhaust, OSG diff) and do a 0.020 over 0 points motor build with a 0.030 shaved head to hit the power goal.

The other interesting dynamic is getting a car and driver to weigh 1932lbs and then adding back the 250lb maximum ballast. For someone of my weight, that means a "minimum weight" car would have to weigh about 1732lb in race trim, minus ballast.

 

Where do you expect the car to be faster? Mid-corner? You're going to be down on power everywhere compared to the classic NB1 build and have less tire as well. I'm sure your weight will help 195 TDs stay in the game for an entire race, but will they really give you better mid-corner speed & braking than a ~2400lb 205 R7 car?

 

As far as faster, would it be bad if I said Mid Ohio or CMP and thats about it?

Tire wise, I dont know. I was using the TDs because theyre a 195 width unicorn. I think youve got the points for a 205 SM7 if youre creative.

So I guess better stated is would the 2182lb SM7 shod car be faster under braking/mid corner than the 2400lb R7 shod NB? I havent seen any hard data on SM7 vs R7, so I honestly dont know the answer to that question.