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Race Prep Miata race-only chat. 949 Racing - Rim & tires

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Old 01-29-2016, 03:47 PM   #621
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what the actual ****? why should this come with a 100lb weight penalty? I guess this is convenient for me because i can stop considering doing a single nasa tt event, ever. wow, **** nasa straight in the ***.

I literally just got defacto banned because I'm tall. I'm pretty sure this counts as discrimination.
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Old 01-29-2016, 03:57 PM   #622
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I talked to my RD, he says this is the standard penalty for floorboard cutting. No idea if that is true or not. But something to consider.

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Old 01-29-2016, 03:58 PM   #623
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it's allowed in spec miata...
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Old 01-29-2016, 03:59 PM   #624
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Why is there a weight penalty for something that doesnt affect performance. Especially when taller guys already weigh more?
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Old 01-29-2016, 04:02 PM   #625
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it's allowed in spec miata...
TT/PT isn't SM. It's a lot broader. I'm not really defending it (or not) but if it's a standard penalty assessed to any car cutting the floorboard, then meh, not much to complain about.

What my RD told me is that there have been cases where proper construction has stiffened the car up.

I'm just repeating what I've been told by someone I trust not to lie to me and hate my car. Maybe someone else with actual hands-on experience can confirm or deny.

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Old 01-29-2016, 04:03 PM   #626
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well then i hope Greg and your RD die in a fire.

I will be lodging a complaint as this is blatant height discrimination which pretty much isn't legal in this country.
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Old 01-29-2016, 04:29 PM   #627
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Thank god I'm not a tall driver, I guess. I don't understand why they need to take another 100lbs?

robert
They don't. Greg and Jerry are tired of Miatas winning races, because when Miatas win, everyone else goes home. Never mind that the Miatas win because they have a robust network of shops putting in the development time - it's just not fair that a 25-year old FWD Nissan with 3 events and zero development time can't keep up with one of the best RWD sports cars to ever exist. Their plan is to ballast Miatas with so much weight and/or so little power that it becomes impossible to win a race with one. This is just an extension of that mentality - if you are big and tall, don't race a Miata, because if you do, you won't be competitive.

IOW, they care more about their bottom line ($$$) than about fair, competitive racing. I was eyeing some TT3 events with the turbo car, but apparently I had forgotten how much they hate us. This was a nice reminder.
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Old 01-29-2016, 05:15 PM   #628
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To play devil's advocate, their bottom line is what keeps them alive and providing the so called "competition". It may be that they are focusing too much on it, but they do need to make money somehow.
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Old 01-29-2016, 05:47 PM   #629
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Originally Posted by EErockMiata View Post
what the actual ****? why should this come with a 100lb weight penalty? I guess this is convenient for me because i can stop considering doing a single nasa tt event, ever. wow, **** nasa straight in the ***.

I literally just got defacto banned because I'm tall. I'm pretty sure this counts as discrimination.
Moving the floor has never been allowed in PT or TT, so it is not something you could have legally done anyway. The only reason for the bulletin is to allow for cars with this modification to run in PT at all.

How tall are you?
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Old 01-29-2016, 05:48 PM   #630
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Hes a tall ****. I'd say like 6'4" if not taller from the one time we met
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Old 01-29-2016, 05:53 PM   #631
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Aside from the fact that it is a totally illogical penalty- Tall drivers will be safer with their heads farther from cage tubes and with more clearance under the bar. I don't understand why they would force a competitor to chose between spending extra time/money on fabrication to be safer VS keeping the floor pan stock and not taking the 100lb penalty.
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Old 01-29-2016, 06:02 PM   #632
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Umm, if you have been running with that modification in the past then you were illegal for PT and TT... this was never allowed before. It seems that this bulletin is to allow Spec Miatas with this modification to be legal for PT, but I'll agree that the 100lbs penalty is unfair and is likely to discourage Miatas from doing this mod whose first priority is competing in PT and not SM.

7.3.2 Restrictions and Limitations for Production Vehicles Only

A) Other than the listed exceptions, every Production vehicle must retain its unmodified:

1) OEM frame rails/rear frame cross beam, and/or Unibody, and Sub-frames/

2) Strut/shock towers

3) Inner/inboard side of the fender wells (any non-horizontal aspect)

4) Rocker panels

5) Transmission tunnel

6) Floor pan

7) Windshield frame location


Exceptions:

The following are permitted exceptions to 7.3.2.A above:

5) The transmission tunnel may be modified for the purpose of installing a

competition driver seat. The floor pan must remain in its original position.
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Old 01-29-2016, 06:15 PM   #633
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Hes a tall ****. I'd say like 6'4" if not taller from the one time we met
Correct, I'm 6'3" if I stand up straight.

Plenty of us that are this height have added a patch panel to the trans tunnel. I spent a **** load having a pro add a patch to my trans tunnel and weld in the safest seat mounts you could think of. (save tying them back to a cage) There were no modifications to my floor board other then welding this patch panel in and removing the rear humps. I had this done by a pro because I was concerned about stressing the metal by banging on it with a hammer to get the clearance i need.

There is zero performance benefit to what I had done on my car. It is purely done from a safety standpoint. We all know that you cannot mount a seat to the floor in a miata without massaging the trans tunnel. None of us are truly modifying the floor boards. This essentially works as a targeted ban on people of a certain height in miatas.

If you're going to gang bang miatae in general, fine... bring it on. We'll still win. But as this stands, I am at a severe disadvantage compared to some one in the exact same car that is under 5'8". That, is discrimination against a very particular sub-sect of people. It is simply amateur rule making and if this were anything other then an elective rich mans sport, would be illegal.

Here's a car with similar seat mounts to mine.



So because I'm tall, and I don't feel like driving a car with cobbled together safety... I have to be defacto banned.
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Old 01-29-2016, 06:23 PM   #634
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EErockMiata dude read the rules that I just posted above. Modifying the transmission tunnel for seat clearance is legal and does not carry a penalty. Your floorpan is still intact you don't have to add 100lbs.
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Old 01-29-2016, 06:25 PM   #635
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EErockMiata dude read the rules that I just posted above. Modifying the transmission tunnel for seat clearance is legal and does not carry a penalty. Your floorpan is still intact you don't have to add 100lbs.
That is how the rules sat before this technical bulletin. Now I add 100lbs.
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Old 01-29-2016, 06:29 PM   #636
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That is how the rules sat before this technical bulletin. Now I add 100lbs.
No, those rules that I posted are still there. The new technical bulletin is if you modify and lower the floorpan in between the trans tunnel and the rocker panel. Trans tunnel modifications for the sole purpose of installing a seat are still good to go from what I understand.
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Old 01-29-2016, 06:35 PM   #637
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That is how the rules sat before this technical bulletin. Now I add 100lbs.
Why, you haven't moved the floor pan. I am 6'2" and have raced 4 different NA Miatas over the last 8 years without needing to lower the floor pan. Sure it took some creative seat mounting and a properly designed cage but it is very doable. We had guy in our region who was 6'5" running a NB in SM before the floor pan allowance.
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Old 01-29-2016, 06:37 PM   #638
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No, those rules that I posted are still there. The new technical bulletin is if you modify and lower the floorpan in between the trans tunnel and the rocker panel. Trans tunnel modifications for the sole purpose of installing a seat are still good to go from what I understand.
You are correct. Modifying the trans tunnel for seat mounting is still 100% legal without any weight penalty in PT.
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Old 01-29-2016, 06:42 PM   #639
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I certainly hope you're correct. That's not how I'm interpreting this (obviously) so I'm definitely going to ask for a clarification. I still had to cut the floor pan to weld in the patch panel and had to remove the rear humps.
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Old 01-29-2016, 06:51 PM   #640
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I certainly hope you're correct. That's not how I'm interpreting this (obviously) so I'm definitely going to ask for a clarification. I still had to cut the floor pan to weld in the patch panel and had to remove the rear humps.
Yes, but you didn't lower the floor pan, so no weight penalty. This is what the bulletin was meant to address.
SM Build: Attempt at a Front Running Car for Under $15k all-in - Page 18 - Spec Miata Garage - Mazda Racers

Using Jason's SM build pictures because I can not find any others at the moment.
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