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Old 05-13-2015, 08:37 AM   #541
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Any of the NB ones. But the HD and OEM sports are better than the MSM because they're shorter I forget the valing difference between them though. IIRC the HD and hard S are similar. Read the thread, this has been hashed out already.
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Old 05-13-2015, 08:48 AM   #542
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Default The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread

Interesting. I did read the beginning of the thread, and there was some debate. And I came back for the last few pages.

Great stuff in here though, I'll likely be putting together a set this summer.
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Old 05-13-2015, 09:44 AM   #543
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Are all these DIY Bilsteins not basically homebuilt Spec Miata kits anyway?

SM kit is 90-97 Bilstein HD, Ground Control sleeves, and Eibach springs. Essentially what everyone here is doing, but with ebay sleeves.

is the world ready for $1500 Bilsteins.. that SM kit is around $1500, available for years.

I get there us revalving being done for ideal set ups, but seems very SM to me.
And nobody buys it unless they're required to, because it sucks.
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Old 05-13-2015, 10:57 AM   #544
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Originally Posted by M.Adamovits View Post
Are all these DIY Bilsteins not basically homebuilt Spec Miata kits anyway?

SM kit is 90-97 Bilstein HD, Ground Control sleeves, and Eibach springs. Essentially what everyone here is doing, but with ebay sleeves.

is the world ready for $1500 Bilsteins.. that SM kit is around $1500, available for years.

I get there us revalving being done for ideal set ups, but seems very SM to me.
the SM kit comes with eibach sway bars, so there is a reason its $1500.

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So what's better? There's the NA (SM) Bilsteins HD, NB Bilsteins HD, Sport NB, and MSM, correct?
If you are not revalving, I would do the NA HDs or the NB Sport. I would prefer the NA HDs though because the shock body is shorter. I had a hard time getting the ride height I wanted without being on the bumpstops on NB sports (others have had similar experiences too).
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Old 05-13-2015, 11:11 AM   #545
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the SM kit comes with eibach sway bars, so there is a reason its $1500.
Exactly my point. There's an off the shelf, proven, relatively decent suspension system available. Maybe something for those who chose not to DIY it.



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If you are not revalving, I would do the NA HDs or the NB Sport. I would prefer the NA HDs though because the shock body is shorter. I had a hard time getting the ride height I wanted without being on the bumpstops on NB sports (others have had similar experiences too).
I'm likely going to be building this set up for a custom tube chassis car I'm building, so the shorter shock body of the NA HDs will be needed. Likely shorter springs as well..
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Old 05-13-2015, 11:14 AM   #546
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Exactly my point. There's an off the shelf, proven, relatively decent suspension system available. Maybe something for those who chose not to DIY it.
Right but what's the point, i think is the question being asked?

I'm not following, help me out.
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Old 05-13-2015, 12:16 PM   #547
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Right but what's the point, i think is the question being asked?

I'm not following, help me out.


Alright, the point I'm trying to make is this.

There's a kit available with NA HDs, track oriented springs and sway bars, and sleeves that are known to work. Many have used it, there's tons of data about it, its an easy option.

I see two reasons not to pick this. One is a comparable option that's cheaper, or an option that is significantly better.

So my question is, are the DIY solutions with your choice of Bilsteins, ebay collars and hand pick springs THAT much better and THAT much cheaper than the SM kit?

Not trying to be an **** or a noob, I'll probably be building a set up like this soon. just seeing if its worth DIY or just taking the easy option.

Flame suit: check.
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Old 05-13-2015, 12:19 PM   #548
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Originally Posted by M.Adamovits View Post


Alright, the point I'm trying to make is this.

There's a kit available with NA HDs, track oriented springs and sway bars, and sleeves that are known to work. Many have used it, there's tons of data about it, its an easy option.

I see two reasons not to pick this. One is a comparable option that's cheaper, or an option that is significantly better.

So my question is, are the DIY solutions with your choice of Bilsteins, ebay collars and hand pick springs THAT much better and THAT much cheaper than the SM kit?

Not trying to be an **** or a noob, I'll probably be building a set up like this soon. just seeing if its worth DIY or just taking the easy option.

Flame suit: check.

Ohhhhh. Gotcha.

Personally, i'd say yes, and yes.

Hell for the price of the SM kit, there's better off the shelf stuff. FEAL 441s come to mind. Pair with sway bars that don't suck for a few more dollars and end up with something far better for marginally less money.

Personally with my setup, including a huge RB front bar with brace/blocks, i'm closer to half the price of the SM kit than i am to the price of the SM kit.
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Old 05-13-2015, 12:25 PM   #549
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Glad the point made it across.
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Old 05-13-2015, 08:54 PM   #550
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So my question is, are the DIY solutions with your choice of Bilsteins, ebay collars and hand pick springs THAT much better and THAT much cheaper than the SM kit?
Well, so far I have shocks, springs, and collars, and I've paid under $265 total. For shock mounts, bumpstops, FSB, and mounting hardware, I count on spending another $150-200 or so. So yeah, I'd say it's worth saving over a thousand dollars to DIY it.
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Old 05-13-2015, 09:02 PM   #551
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Default The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread

Awesome.

Reliable place to purchase shocks cheap?
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Old 05-13-2015, 09:05 PM   #552
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Awesome.

Reliable place to purchase shocks cheap?
Forums and Craigslist. Expect to hunt around for a while if you want to pay under $300. Even that's a drop in the bucket compared to $1500, though.
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Old 05-15-2015, 08:24 AM   #553
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Originally Posted by M.Adamovits View Post
Awesome.

Reliable place to purchase shocks cheap?
How many questions are you going to ask that are already answered in this thread?

There are sources for cheap new NB Bilsteins (MSM and Hard S for ~$97-120) listed earlier in this thread. There are charts in this thread showing some compression and rebound damping rates of the various shocks, to answer one of your other questions. MSM shocks are shorter than the rest, to reference something else you've said. And the SM guys run the SM setup because they are required to use it, not because it is better.

And Eibach doesn't have some magic formula for spring steel for making sway bars. There are better choices.

Please don't junk up the thread.
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Old 05-15-2015, 09:50 AM   #554
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Any of the NB ones. But the HD and OEM sports are better than the MSM because they're shorter I forget the valing difference between them though. IIRC the HD and hard S are similar. Read the thread, this has been hashed out already.
In the thread linked on the previous page Shaikh recommends the NA Bilstein HD over the NB options which appear to be the preference in this thread. Any thoughts or response/refutation of his comments there?
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Old 05-15-2015, 09:58 AM   #555
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Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
How many questions are you going to ask that are already answered in this thread?

There are sources for cheap new NB Bilsteins (MSM and Hard S for ~$97-120) listed earlier in this thread. There are charts in this thread showing some compression and rebound damping rates of the various shocks, to answer one of your other questions. MSM shocks are shorter than the rest, to reference something else you've said. And the SM guys run the SM setup because they are required to use it, not because it is better.

And Eibach doesn't have some magic formula for spring steel for making sway bars. There are better choices.

Please don't junk up the thread.
MSM shocks are the longest, not the shortest. Would not recommend without extended hats.
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Old 05-15-2015, 08:07 PM   #556
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MSM shocks are the longest, not the shortest. Would not recommend without extended hats.
That's right. I knew something sounded funny but I was in a hurry. It was because they put monster truck wheels on it and needed the travel to do something different like hit the bump stops sooner (or did I not read that somewhere?).
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Old 05-15-2015, 09:53 PM   #557
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I've been reading this thread to investigate a problem that I had with my diy bilstein coilover; 2x. Both times involving failure of the right rear coil-over body spring clip. Each time it occurred after jacking and adjusting the spring perch for corner balancing.

The first time this happened was two years ago, I had the car at Adreneline Racing to set the corner weights prior to a track day event. They called me and said that the car wouldn't be ready as the snap ring had failed while they were adjusting the ride height and that they would have to source a new one. I ended up pulling one off of an old shock and still made it to the event. Inspection did not reveal wear or debris at the snap-ring groove. There was no rounding of the internal shelf of the coilover. The snap ring itself was distorted. It was thought to be fine after replacing the clip.

This same thing happened this Thursday after I had jacked the car and turned the spring perch. After looking at this further, I noticed that the coilover body did fit a little loosely over the shock (estimate .080" slop) and I think that what is happening is that during jacking/adjusting I am allowing the coilover body to **** sideways enough to perhaps get an edge on the tip of the sirclip... ultimately prying it out of the groove. I duck taped the shock body to help keep the coilover body from wiggling sideways and I hope that this solves the problem.

I can't image what would happen if the shock collapsed on the track... hopefully, I won't find out!

I'm wondering if taping the body or even using a shaft collar (as was talked about earlier in the thread) should be DIY mandatory? I think that a better design would have the coilover body fitting more snuggly against the snap ring, capturing it so that it couldn't expand once seated.

Last edited by speedj; 05-15-2015 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 05-15-2015, 09:59 PM   #558
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Sounds like coil bind to me.
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Old 05-16-2015, 12:34 AM   #559
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Originally Posted by speedj View Post
I've been reading this thread to investigate a problem that I had with my diy bilstein coilover; 2x. Both times involving failure of the right rear coil-over body spring clip. Each time it occurred after jacking and adjusting the spring perch for corner balancing.

The first time this happened was two years ago, I had the car at Adreneline Racing to set the corner weights prior to a track day event. They called me and said that the car wouldn't be ready as the snap ring had failed while they were adjusting the ride height and that they would have to source a new one. I ended up pulling one off of an old shock and still made it to the event. Inspection did not reveal wear or debris at the snap-ring groove. There was no rounding of the internal shelf of the coilover. The snap ring itself was distorted. It was thought to be fine after replacing the clip.

This same thing happened this Thursday after I had jacked the car and turned the spring perch. After looking at this further, I noticed that the coilover body did fit a little loosely over the shock (estimate .080" slop) and I think that what is happening is that during jacking/adjusting I am allowing the coilover body to **** sideways enough to perhaps get an edge on the tip of the sirclip... ultimately prying it out of the groove. I duck taped the shock body to help keep the coilover body from wiggling sideways and I hope that this solves the problem.

I can't image what would happen if the shock collapsed on the track... hopefully, I won't find out!

I'm wondering if taping the body or even using a shaft collar (as was talked about earlier in the thread) should be DIY mandatory? I think that a better design would have the coilover body fitting more snuggly against the snap ring, capturing it so that it couldn't expand once seated.
Failing snap rings was covered earlier. Using a sleeve that covers the snap ring should help with that. Worn snap rings are more likely to give especially if the sleeve is not holding it to the body of the shock.

The Bilstein OE perch does exactly that. its got an edge that fits over the snap ring and the rest of the perch slides over it.

If jacking is "wiggling" the sleeve over the circ clip, certainly driving on track will. I have marked and/or taped a loose sleeve before which definitely didn't work. Atleast not for long.


TLDR; buy the all-star sleeves.
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Old 05-16-2015, 12:34 PM   #560
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How many questions are you going to ask that are already answered in this thread?

...

Please don't junk up the thread.
There's a lot of good information earlier in this thread but there is some misinformation too (usually corrected right away). Also there is some correct but incomplete information. I still have to junk up the thread with questions that were kinda/sorta answered already.

People talk about what works and what will probably work best but then they often fail to mention if their advice applies to both the NA and NB or the advice refers to used part names or the equivalent names for new parts. (Hard-S, MSM, Bilstein HD, Bilstein B6, Bilstein B8, etc.,etc.)

I posted a question for clarification a few pages ago because I was trying to get specific advice for new shocks on a NB. I got good advice because I thought I should buy B8 shocks instead of the B6. (I was told the B8 is the same size shock but the extension is limited so springs won't rattle on lowered suspension - that advice is correct right?)

But now I am seeing advice that the NA shock is a better choice than the NB shock. I assume that the NA shock is still a better choice for the NB Miata especially if the car will be lowered a little? (not too much)

So I guess I am looking at buying the Bilstein HD B6 shock for the NA for installation on my 2001?

Then my choice is the Amazon kit mentioned earlier in this thread for its sleeves and 350 pound springs. Next I just have to pick up one pair of 450/8K springs on eBay and some Honda bump stops for a daily driver coilover setup at around $600.

Amazon.com: Rev9Power 1996 to 2000 Honda Civic Coilover Springs Lowering Kit Silver Color Lower Springs: Automotive
Honda part number 51722-SR0-003

(gonna risk getting cheap sleeves that are not as good as the All-Star sleeves for $150 more)

I am assuming that the NB does not necessarily need extended top hats but I think I can wait to make that decision.

Please correct me if I am wrong.
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