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Just FYI. The energy suspension sway bar bushings will need to be drilled out. This is challenging as if you put clamping presssure to hold the bushing steady it deforms the hole.
Just FYI. The energy suspension sway bar bushings will need to be drilled out. This is challenging as if you put clamping presssure to hold the bushing steady it deforms the hole.
That's code for "have fun drilling your fingertips", isn't it? I'll figure something out .. thinking drill press, block of wood with a shallow pocket to hold them.. maybe.
Honestly after messing with those things, I threw them away. They are extremely hard and don’t compress vertically. What I did was use the stock bushings. Reverse them. Put the stock lower bushing (the big one) on top. This also gives the shaft protection as the bushing has the extended nipple to fit in the hole. I drilled out my tophats to accommodate this. Then use the stock top bushing (smaller) on the underside.
For the NA setup you can have decent travel. The NA billies are just harsh but should be able to handle 700 in the front, I forget what the back can take. NA billies with NA hats is the spec miata setup (may be valved differently I forget).
Honestly after messing with those things, I threw them away. They are extremely hard and don’t compress vertically. What I did was use the stock bushings. Reverse them. Put the stock lower bushing (the big one) on top. This also gives the shaft protection as the bushing has the extended nipple to fit in the hole. I drilled out my tophats to accommodate this. Then use the stock top bushing (smaller) on the underside.
Well, for $10 I figured I'd give it a try. Why reverse the stock ones? More usable shock travel?
700# on a street car will be very uncomfortable IMHO. That's just overkill for a shock that is not setup to control that much spring and do so on less than ideal surface.
No. The Stockers are about the same thickness. The difference is in the overal diameter. The stock bottom bushing is wife and won’t fit well in some aftermarket extended tophats. Reversing the orientation gives you plenty of clearance in extended tophats. I hope that makes sense.
No. The Stockers are about the same thickness. The difference is in the overal diameter. The stock bottom bushing is wife and won’t fit well in some aftermarket extended tophats. Reversing the orientation gives you plenty of clearance in extended tophats. I hope that makes sense.
Makes perfect sense, thanks for the explanation! I'm using stock NA hats, so I can run them normal orientation. What was your original thought on running the ES stuff, cheap alternative, tighter control of shock movement or something else?
When I ordered the Two-six motorsports tophats he suggested the ES bushings for the size and fitment within the tophat. They were cheap so I said sure. I did use the washers in the ES kit as they are very thick and a good size but I ditched the bushings. On my konis I used stiffer stock bushings that I got from japan. On the msm just normal stock bushings as I had them lying around.
700# on a street car will be very uncomfortable IMHO. That's just overkill for a shock that is not setup to control that much spring and do so on less than ideal surface.
The NA billies are uncomfortable on the street no matter the spring rate, mostly because they're valved to run 700lb springs except the valving is very linear.
..some amusement for you all: I ordered 4 (of 6 shown in stock) Sleeves from Amazon at $9.27 each (super cheap score, right?) Sunday night, with free Prime shipping no less. I felt like I just found $20 on the ground! Today, I look and 1 of the 4 "in stock" I ordered may be backordered.. Lovely. So I have 3 sleeves coming? If I do my math correctly, that's roughly 75% helpful. Feel like that $20 turned out to be monopoly money.
Bah.. but good news! The helpful Chat 'expert' said I could cancel this order and then reorder them! Uhhhhhh.. huh?!!?! How does that fix my backorder problem?
And even BETTER news! I can reorder them for the 300% increase (since Sunday) of $27.50 each! Such a DEAL!!!!
{..shakes head..}
After browbeating the chat person for 10 minutes, bemoaning how this destroys my life, etc. suddenly there is an update and they magically found 1 which I should have in 24 hours (I mean, he said so!), how a-freaking-mazing!
Now that we're on the subject, which billies ride the smoothest? Bilstein MSM or Bilstein HD shocks? Or are there others that I don't know about?
Looking to run something like 375 / 250 spring rates for a fairly compliant ride. Car sees dirt my dirt road daily.
They're basically identical in terms of valving (assuming you're talking about the NB Bilstein HD's). The HD have a tiny bit more bleed/less low speed, but it's minimal- could even have just been differences in the individual shocks that were dyno-ed when this piece of received wisdom was born.
I was struggling to compare all the bump charts, so I just spent far too much time compiling this from every bump stop chart I could lay my hands on. Unfortunately, the OEM 63mm one is a weird line (only place I found it was FCM's chart) and the 5X options don't go beyond 0.6" or 500 in/lb. Also, no chart exists of an uncut whatever to a cut down version, I would be very curious to see how that changes or shifts the curves (especially if you could do a "take 20mm off the base" vs. "take 20mm off the tip" comparison as well - If someone wants to test one of the longer stops out that way, I'll update the chart - maybe one of the longer honda options?)
So this shows all the common options, overlayed (I believe correctly?) so you can see how in uncut form they compare as it relates to the stroke. This really helped me to see what compares to what and how a lot of them are very very simliar. There may be slight misalignment on any given trace due to how I had to do this, but in the grand scheme of it all I would say it's within the +/- if the testing anyhow. Curious for thoughts & analysis by the experts....
Hopefully this is right and helps others with seeing how things relate to each other, digging through too many charts with different scales, different offsets, metric vs. SAE.. it sucked.
I know this must be somewhere in this thread, but I ran a search and it says no results found.
-NA 90, currently using NB shocks and NB tophats, non Bilstein.
-I'm buying new shocks, can't find the OEM silver Billies.
-450/300lb springs.
Using NB shocks unless told otherwise. The Bilstein B6(Performance) or B8(Sport) are my options.
-B8 seem to have shorter body, they are Out of stock everywhere, back ordered.
-B6 has longer body, backordered too.
I didn't see posts with the B8 being used, I did see people using the B6.
Additionally I can choose the NA ones, but I've read that the valving is ****, is it?
B6 for NA are available and cheaper.
I know this must be somewhere in this thread, but I ran a search and it says no results found.
-NA 90, currently using NB shocks and NB tophats, non Bilstein.
-I'm buying new shocks, can't find the OEM silver Billies.
-450/300lb springs.
Using NB shocks unless told otherwise. The Bilstein B6(Performance) or B8(Sport) are my options.
-B8 seem to have shorter body, they are Out of stock everywhere, back ordered.
-B6 has longer body, backordered too.
I didn't see posts with the B8 being used, I did see people using the B6.
Additionally I can choose the NA ones, but I've read that the valving is ****, is it?
B6 for NA are available and cheaper.
What do? Wait for NB B8s?
Bilstein B8 for NB were available end of August/early September on Summit Racing. and cheapest there too.
I know this must be somewhere in this thread, but I ran a search and it says no results found.
-NA 90, currently using NB shocks and NB tophats, non Bilstein.
-I'm buying new shocks, can't find the OEM silver Billies.
-450/300lb springs.
Using NB shocks unless told otherwise. The Bilstein B6(Performance) or B8(Sport) are my options.
-B8 seem to have shorter body, they are Out of stock everywhere, back ordered.
-B6 has longer body, backordered too.
I didn't see posts with the B8 being used, I did see people using the B6.
Additionally I can choose the NA ones, but I've read that the valving is ****, is it?
B6 for NA are available and cheaper.
What do? Wait for NB B8s?
This info is wrong. The B8s have the same body length, they just have a 1" shorter piston rod, so have less droop. Useful to stop the spring coming loose if you're using a shorter springs than OEM, but otherwise not really want you want.
Valving is the same. Get the B6 if you have the option.
I'll figure something out .. thinking drill press, block of wood with a shallow pocket to hold them.. maybe.
07-28-2018, 07:23 PM
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