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Old 08-19-2012, 12:10 AM   #1
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Default SuperMiata Harmonic Damper?

Harmonic Balancer Miata

Tell me more (iI'm a bit thick at times). How does this compare to the ATI model? Is this needed on a 1.6 that won't rev past the OEM rev limiter? The car WILL be tracked and currently has an Unorthodox Racing pulley on it.


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Old 08-19-2012, 01:42 AM   #2
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New Harmonic Balancer from SuperMiata - Miata Turbo Forum - Home to the Turbo Miata

BTW, I would never run an undamped pulley on our motors, especially a track car.

--Ferdi
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Old 08-19-2012, 02:15 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miata_racer View Post
The car WILL be tracked and currently has an Unorthodox Racing pulley on it.
Then you WILL blow up the oil pump. Underdrive pulleys and Miata motors do not mix.

The SuperMiata unit is cheaper than an ATI damper, lighter, and actually designed for the motor. It's the one you want.
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:32 PM   #4
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thank you Mr. Kidd that's what I needed to hear

and it'll work on the 1.8 when I inevitably blow up the 1.6 motor.
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:50 PM   #5
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Why is there still a provision for an AC/PS belt? If you're in need of this, you obviously have a serious track pig and AC and PS are the first to go. Looks like it could lose another 2 lbs.
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Old 08-19-2012, 07:06 PM   #6
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^^^I was wondering this myself actually...the only reason I didn't cut mine off the UR pulley is to keep the resale value up. I have no AC or PS on my car so I'd be down for a pulley without it for sure

I assume it's to make it more marketable to the masses of people who aren't stupid like us and kept a/c. that would be nice on those 100+ degree days waiting in the pit to go on track...
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Old 08-19-2012, 07:21 PM   #7
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not every high powered miata is a pure track ****. some are street cars for a few hours between rebuilds and bannings.
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Old 08-19-2012, 08:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
not every high powered miata is a pure track ****. some are street cars for a few hours between rebuilds and bannings.

Yes. So please, someone tell me why this part is superior to an ATI Damper or Fluidampr.
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Old 08-19-2012, 09:07 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Yes. So please, someone tell me why this part is superior to an ATI Damper or Fluidampr.
Post 3.
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Old 08-19-2012, 09:11 PM   #10
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Post 3.
Cheaper and lighter. I thought lighter and no rubber inside is bad. Anything else? Does it have rubber in it? Or just metal.

Is the main point of this to get rid of the bolts?
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Old 08-19-2012, 09:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Cheaper and lighter. I thought lighter and no rubber inside is bad. Anything else? Does it have rubber in it? Or just metal.

Is the main point of this to get rid of the bolts?
It has rubber - it's just aluminum and designed for more force than the OEM damper is designed for. Less weight and more damping.

Getting rid of the bolts is a big perk, but it will also knock down engine vibration better, which means you'll see less hardware come loose from the chassis on a regular basis. I know on our track cars, we have to re-tighten intake manifold nuts - hopefully that will cease with this part.
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:08 PM   #12
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^I'd like less loose parts. If it does a good enough job I'll put the other delrin mount in place of the mazda motorsports one I have on the other side.

Now I just need to save up an additional $500 again after I buy this and the pulleys I need
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Old 08-20-2012, 12:14 AM   #13
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I talk to 949 for a while the other day before I ordered this. I asked about the extra ribbing and if there would ever be a single belt version.He said it had been discussed, but the extra weight out there is actually needed. The physics is a bit over my head. had something to do with how far from the center of the shaft it is and the amount of metal there is minimal. Something I think was said that if the extra ribs were machined off weight would have to be put somewhere else. Negating the shaving of the ribs savings. I my head it makes sense. I can't put into words very well maybe. Something like having 2 different 10lb flywheels and one being far better than the other because of where the weight is placed is more important. More weight centrally will spin up faster than the one with all its weight on the outer ring. Sorta like spinning a pail of water at arms lenght vs spinning it around your wrist at the same rpm.
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Old 08-20-2012, 04:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
It has rubber - it's just aluminum and designed for more force than the OEM damper is designed for. Less weight and more damping.

Still waiting for the real answer to--

Why is this better than the ATI and Fluidampr? Because it does the EXACT same thing JUST AS WELL for LESS MONEY?

Is that your claim?
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:49 AM   #15
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ATI / Fluidampr are dynamic self-correcting dampers. As vibrations change with engine speed and pulse intensity, the ATI / Fluidampr adjust to smooth those vibrations.

Solid state dampers can be tuned to a specific frequency and intensity, but just like a fixed intake system, there are going to be areas where it is less efficient at what it does. This damper is better than the ATI in two ways --> It adds inexpensiveness and it adds lightness. The ATI is actually about 2 pounds *heavier* than stock.

Faefae, keep your ATI.
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:58 AM   #16
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This must be pressed onto the crankshaft with special tool. What tools are required to remove this unit for timing belt changes or other maintenance? Do you attach a pulley puller to the aluminum outer ring? I'm a bit wary of that idea.

I will consider this for my car but wish to know what exactly I'm getting into.
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Old 08-20-2012, 01:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooger03 View Post
ATI / Fluidampr are dynamic self-correcting dampers. As vibrations change with engine speed and pulse intensity, the ATI / Fluidampr adjust to smooth those vibrations.

Solid state dampers can be tuned to a specific frequency and intensity, but just like a fixed intake system, there are going to be areas where it is less efficient at what it does. This damper is better than the ATI in two ways --> It adds inexpensiveness and it adds lightness. The ATI is actually about 2 pounds *heavier* than stock.

Faefae, keep your ATI.

Yeah, that's what I thought. I can deal with 2 extra pounds on my crank for better damping.

Sounds like this is good for those racing with moderate horsepower who don't need every trick in the book to keep their engines together.
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Old 08-20-2012, 02:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Yeah, that's what I thought. I can deal with 2 extra pounds on my crank for better damping.

Sounds like this is good for those racing with moderate horsepower who don't need every trick in the book to keep their engines together.
That's not a good characterization at all. This damper is good for everyone, regardless of application. I'll be using one on Theseus and Rover, and those two applications are quite different indeed.

I won't say it's better than ATI or worse than ATI, but it is a lot lighter and a lot cheaper.
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Old 08-20-2012, 02:41 PM   #19
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Am I the only one that never needed a puller/press to remove or reinstall a crank pulley. I have done timing belt installs on both my cars and didn't need one. Other crap fights me tooth and nail, but never had issues with the crank pulley.
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Old 08-20-2012, 04:17 PM   #20
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You using the stock pulley?

The stock pulley will slide right on/off by hand.

The performance pulleys are a different story.

I once had to remove a fly pulley from a Kawasaki 636, had a puller on it with breaker bars on the puller for leverage, and even then, I was putting everything I could muster into twisting that thing, when all of a sudden came a massively loud POP!! and everything in my hand just went loose. Scared the bejesus out of me. I was certain that I had broken something - either the pulley or the tool. The puller was sitting loose on the pulley, and I probably spent 10 seconds trying to find out what I had broke before I realized that the pulley had come nearly all the way off the crankshaft. Slid it the rest of the way off in quiet excitement. Has nothing to do with Miata pulleys, but it reminded me of that story.
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