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Old 04-06-2010, 10:19 AM   #1
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Default All ready to go but not cranking, what to check?

Long story short, I got a 96 with 01. car runs fine with 96 PNP pigtail, but I been trying to get VVT working. I Finally figured out how to do this right. (I can give tons more details for those interested). so I wired it up as an NB with NB trigger wheel, crank and cam sensors. I got an RPM signal on the laptop when trying to crank, so I know that part is working. but still not cranking. oh and I got NB selected for triggering.

Ideas on what I should be checking?
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Old 04-06-2010, 10:29 AM   #2
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is it cranking but not catching?
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Old 04-06-2010, 10:38 AM   #3
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yeah, its spinning over with the starter. and reading a signal because the gauges on the laptop are showing 250 or so RPM when cranking. Rather than 0 before when I had it all wrong with no crank signal.
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Old 04-06-2010, 10:40 AM   #4
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Check spark settings, and play around with your trigger angle till it fires.

Then set base timing.
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Old 04-06-2010, 11:12 PM   #5
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Did you change anything else? Mine did something similar when I put the fuel feed/return lines on backwards.
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Old 04-07-2010, 08:00 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trigger View Post
yeah, its spinning over with the starter. and reading a signal because the gauges on the laptop are showing 250 or so RPM when cranking. Rather than 0 before when I had it all wrong with no crank signal.
The base map min run cranking RPM is set to 250rpm. Charge battery?
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Old 04-07-2010, 08:10 AM   #7
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Are you using VE for the cranking fuel?
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Old 04-07-2010, 09:12 AM   #8
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Last night I moved the wires back to the original position the PNP came in when it last ran, and the car still didn't start. I got to investigating and I am pretty sure its not getting fuel. I sprayed a little starting fluid in the throttle and it popped. Also, it started doing something odd. When I turn the key on, the cooling fan kicks on for about 2 seconds. So now I am thinking my fuel pump signal is going to the fan. Not sure how that happened. Is that a setting or something I can check? I highly doubt its crossed wires since I have only been messing with trigger signal wires, and the fan wires are on the opposite end of the ECU.

It was running a week ago on OEM ecu. so I don't think the fuel lines are crossed. and I have been keeping the charger on the battery since I been cranking, and cranking, and cranking.

This will show my ignorance, Whats VE? maybe thats the problem. although it started on this map before. so I would think it would start again.

Thanks
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:06 AM   #9
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With the ignition turned to the run position without starting, do you hear the fuel pump turn on? You could always jump the two pins in the diagnostic box under the hood to keep the pump going (I don't know which pins it would be for an NA).

Do you smell any fuel either if you pull the plugs or from the exhaust? Did you try the injector test feature on the F2 screen and does each individual injector fire?

In the Analogue Cals/Tuning Mode tab there's a Tuning Mode section on the bottom left. You can convert your maps to VE, and use VE for cranking. Just make sure to use your correct engine displacement and injector capacity. I've had good cranking results from this.
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:18 AM   #10
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okay, not finding any injector test. When I hit F2 it brings up the guages menu.

Also, in the analoge tab, under tuning mode, I don't see a VE option. its got MAP & TPS and various combos of those two only.
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Old 04-07-2010, 12:40 PM   #11
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F11 brings up the ECU data window.

You should see the TRIGGER 1 and TRIGGER 2 text highlighted in RED, GREEN, or YELLOW.

Red means no activity for a while
Green means "high"
Yellow means "changing state a lot"

so you want to see them either flashing green or yellow. if one is not or is red, you probably aren't getting a signal. 1 is crank sensor, 2 is cam sensor.

also, you'll want to go into the triggering settings and FIRST and MOST IMPORTANTLY, set the "choose engine" button option to mazda and BP RWD NB MX5 and hit OK. This pre-sets the trigger settings to mazda specs.

Then hit that button again and select "custom" and "OK". If you choose anything else, you have to go back and set it to Mazda / NB BP again first.

Then hit the "Triggering Settings" button and change the first two items on the next screen for Trigger 1 and Trigger 2 to "Rising Edge". Hit OK and save.

That should rule out any triggering anomalies.
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Old 04-07-2010, 12:47 PM   #12
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That was really helpful. first I will make sure I am getting fuel, then I will try that trigger trick tonight. thanks.
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Old 04-07-2010, 04:50 PM   #13
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Oops, I meant F11 for the injector test, among other useful info.
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Old 04-07-2010, 05:18 PM   #14
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I just had an aha moment. I bet I know whats going on. I loaded some of theose new maps Travis had that came out a while back. I noticed that some of the aux settings were different than what I initially had setup. before I had to change them. I bet I loaded a map and didn't change the aux. thats why the fan is kicking on for a few seconds and not the fuel pump.

Gonna check that too.
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Old 04-07-2010, 05:27 PM   #15
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OMG, thats exactly. I got to looking through the maps I had saved. the new map pack has fuel pump on aux 5. the setup I was using last time it ran has fuel pump on aux 4 and water temp on aux 5.

DUH.

and CRAP! I finally figured out the 01 wiring and triggers and thought I screwed up, and I went and reset everything back. now I got to reset it back to 01 again.
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Old 04-07-2010, 11:41 PM   #16
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okay, so I get home, load map i know worked before, double checked he aux out settings. crossed fingers, cranked, VROOOM WOOOHOO!!

Awesome, so I can tune it, if I don't care about VVT. but thats why I bought this thing. So, I install 01 trigger wheel and crank sensor. run the power, ground, and signal to trigger 1. and run the 01 cam sensor from the back of the intake cam to trigger 2. double check. change setting to NB on the laptop and load to ECU. pull up F2 and the F11 menu. Crank. POP POW POP POP POP POW

getting RPM signal. injectors good, trigger 1 and 2 both yellow when cranking, fuel pump on aux 4 just like before.

even tried the custom setting and changed to rising edge, still lots of popping.

it acts like timing is way off. So what now? ideas?
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:04 PM   #17
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I think I may have figured out the problem. I got to looking through all the NB maps I have on file and the "advanced" button has conflicting information.

When I used the map I was running on and switched the setting to NB, it changed the triggers, but was changing it to one of the following, obviously a wrong one.

so I looked through all the NB's I got and here are the varios combos.

1) cam, crank, 79, 10, -1, 2 before output, NB special mode, 4500 dwell
2) crank, crank, 79, 10, -1, 3, none, 5000
3) cam, crank, 79, 10, -1, 2, NB, 2100
4) cam, crank, 83, 14, -1, 2, NB, 2100

So which one is actually the right one?
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Old 04-08-2010, 03:05 PM   #18
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I left mine on whatever it was in the install pack for the NB with 600cc injectors. It starts but it still takes a while even with a lot of fuel.

dgmorr,
What is your cranking values in VE? I thought there was an issue where even after you checked off VE for cranking it didn't change the values to VE in the cranking map.
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Old 04-08-2010, 03:58 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomRoadster View Post
I left mine on whatever it was in the install pack for the NB with 600cc injectors. It starts but it still takes a while even with a lot of fuel.

dgmorr,
What is your cranking values in VE? I thought there was an issue where even after you checked off VE for cranking it didn't change the values to VE in the cranking map.

My cranking values didn't change in the table when I selected VE for Cranking. After I put in my 550cc injectors everything worked. I changed nothing except injectors and that one setting.

BTW, I am still using the jumpers on my PNP board to let the factory ecu control idle and it works flawlessly. If you are still having idle issues and have this option, I'd give it a try.

These were the values from another member's map that worked well with my 265cc and now my 550cc. I'm guessing the VE option overrides this in the background.
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Old 04-08-2010, 09:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
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I'm guessing the VE option overrides this in the background.
Well then that crap didn't work with me...
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